020 - Leading with Love & Restoring Balance
How do we forgive ourselves when we’ve hurt the ones we love, and how do we simultaneously extend grace and compassion to others when they make mistakes?
We’re all human, which means we’ve all hurt someone at one point or another, but the defining moments often come after when we have to decide how to restore balance. The most harmonious relationships require us to lead with love, and in today’s episode, my walking companion, Lisane Basquiat, is sharing how she applies this philosophy in her life.
As we continue our conversation from our recent episode together on her podcast, Shaping Freedom, we dive deeper into how she has worked to restore balance internally and externally, how this shift requires flexibility and determination, and why it’s important for us to evaluate our wants vs. our needs.
Join us on this walk to find out how you can foster alignment and harmony in yourself and your relationships.
In This Episode
(3:30) Lisane shares the experience that acted as a catalyst for change
(8:16) How to be aware of our tendency to hurt the people closest to us and how to restore balance
(17:00) Why we have to lead with love in our relationships
(22:15) The role of forgiveness and grace in fostering balance
(24:55) The importance of forgiving ourselves while remaining compassionate with others
(28:18) How to approach balance with a sense of flexibility
(32:13) Why we have to see, hear, and understand others in conflict
(38:37) Evaluating our needs vs. our wants
(44:25) “We are all creators.”
(47:00) Lisane shares her tips for honoring your harmony and agency
Notable Quotes
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“Just like in the relationships that we have with other people, there is this ongoing dialogue with ourselves, and it includes the same elements of a quality relationship that we have with other people. Forgiveness, you know – ‘Please forgive me, and let’s move on.’ Because that’s the way, I believe, that you get right with yourself… Because once I’m willing to see myself as a human being who makes mistakes and is trying her best, then I can have true compassion for other people.”
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“Now I’m asking myself some very different questions that are not about ego. They’re about something beyond that, something broader than that. And I say it that way because very often, I had to go through this. When I would ask questions like, ‘What are my values?’, a lot of the values that I had, or I should say the definitions of the values that I had, were chosen out of ego and preference. They were chosen out of, ‘If things are like this, then I feel like life is aligned and life is good.’ And now it’s, ‘Actually, no. Let me look at what are the qualities in me that are part of my essence that, when I bring them out, I’m bringing the value to my life – as opposed to lining things up that feel valuable.’”
Our Guest
Lisane Basquiat is the founder of Shaping Freedom®, a personal growth company that trains individuals on how to gain empowerment through internal congruence and spiritual alignment. She also owns Hera Hub Carlsbad, a female-focused and gender inclusive community, co-working space, and business accelerator. She’s Co-Administer of the Jean-Michel Basquiat Estate, Board Certified by the Association of Integrative Psychology as a Master Practitioner and trainer of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), a Master Practitioner of Mental and Emotional Release® (MER) Therapy and Hypnotherapy, a Certified Professional Coach (iPEC graduate), an Accredited Energy Leadership Coach, a Reiki practitioner, and a Certified Advanced Theta Healer.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
Lisane Basquiat
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Luke (00:01):
Welcome to On This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart centered guests each week, as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically. Uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Today we are walking in a kind of unique fashion because it's really the continuation of a walk that started elsewhere. Let me explain. A friend of mine, Lisane Basquiat, that I actually attended coach training with at IPEC 17 years ago, reached out to me about appearing on her podcast, Shaping Freedom. We had an unreal conversation touching on how during this journey into freedom, so often things need to both fall away and fall apart, and the importance of taking space to allow this process. And the thing is, is we didn't get a chance to finish our conversation. We're gonna go even deeper into this today, here on this walk. So I strongly encourage you to check out where this conversation began and listen to the Shaping Freedom episode, Embracing the Messiness of Life.
And then today we're gonna dive in with Lisane. Lisane Basquiat is the founder of Shaping Freedom, a personal growth company that trains individuals on how to gain empowerment through internal congruence and spiritual alignment. This results in healthier familial dynamics and legacy. She also owns Hera Hub Carlsbad, a female focused and gender inclusive community, co-working space and business accelerator. She is co-administrator, along with her sister and the support of their stepmother of the Jean-Michel Basquiat Estate, the role of which is to honor their brother by maintaining and enhancing his legacy and to make his art more accessible to audiences throughout the world.
Lisane is a former corporate executive, she specialized in organizational development and change management. She's Board Certified by the Association of Integrative Psychology. She's been trained in Neuro-Linguistic Programming in Mental and Emotional Release® (MER) Therapy and Hypnotherapy. She's a Certified Professional Coach, as I mentioned, an Energy Leadership Coach, Reiki practitioner, Certified Advanced Theta Healer, all the things. She's been at it for quite some time. Originally from Brooklyn, she has now been bi-coastal living in both San Diego and the Northeast since 2012.
So as we dive into this episode, as always, if you are new to On This Walk, do me a favor and hit that subscribe button and be sure to follow along. I also wanted to make sure that everybody's aware, we have recently launched a new Facebook community so that the conversations that start here don't need to end here. They can keep going. You can ask your questions, even engage with some of the guests that have been on this show, as well as all the others that have begun to tune in to On This Walk. Just go to Facebook and search up On This Walk Podcast. You'll find the group. So now let's go on this walk with Lisane Basquiat and the time and space for falling into freedom.
Lisane, I gotta say, this is a lot of fun for us to drop back in this way, to have had the wonderful conversation that we started on Shaping Freedom, on your podcast. And now to be able to continue this conversation here on this walk. And you know, just to kind of drop us back in a little bit, part of what we were speaking to the other day was this importance of taking space so that as we recognized, things are no longer in alignment for us, we recognize that there are some things that we thought we wanted, but they're just, they don't seem like they're really actually what we wanted or they're just not true for us anymore. And we need to take space to allow those things. We talked about it as falling apart, but also as falling away and allowing ourselves, right? Giving ourselves permission to be in that space, to go through that type of process, knowing that it's not a, it's not an overnight thing, right? It's not, not something that happens so, so fast. And so one of the things that I've seen you reference and looking both at your podcast as well as from your writing and things like that, is that you mentioned getting it right on the inside. And I am curious to hear you speak a little bit about that, getting it right on the inside. Cause that to me is so much of what that taking of space is for.
Lisane (04:34):
At the end of the day, and I know I've heard I, before really understanding it, I would hear people talk about how what's happening outside of ourselves is just a reflection of what's going on inside. And I didn't fully understand it until this moment that I had maybe, I don't know, I think it was like 2007 maybe. And I was on a video. I was like on a WebEx and I was doing some chatting with people and I had this kind of nagging feeling that I felt, I had felt all that day. And I had this moment where I realized that had someone outside of myself said that they needed something from me, that I would've done everything that I could possibly do to meet that person's need to show up for that person, to hear them, to be there for them, to hold counsel with them and to talk them off the cliff.
You know, the emotional cliff. And what I recognized in that moment was that while I had been willing to do that for other people, it was something that I was unwilling to do for myself. And I saw it clearly, as clearly as if I were looking at a movie. You know, I saw me thinking, well, wow, I really need something and kind of like belittle me, the small me. Saying, you know, hey, I need, I need something here. And the me that was in beta mode, the me who was in a meeting and doing work and doing all this stuff, kind of like, hey, you know, just later, not now. And I recognized that energy of indifference and of disregard and of impatience. And I also recognized that that was something that I would never do to a person outside of myself.
But over time, as I became more aware of that, you know, my attention was drawn to that. I started to see how what was happening outside of me, the frustration that I was feeling, some of the resentment that I would feel toward other people sometimes was really just an extension or the ability for me to see outside of myself because I was able to see outside more clearly. You know, what was actually happening on the inside. I believe Luke, that everything comes from what's happening inside of us. Everything. And we create what's happening outside of us as a result of kind of what is transpiring on the inside.
Luke (07:35):
You know, it's, it's amazing because we, we, we talk about that, right? And as you said, it didn't make sense. Right? It's, it's for one thing for us to say that what's going on in our lives mirrors what's going on within us. And until we have that moment where it just like, it's just the blinding flash of the obvious, right? Where all of a sudden's like, oh God, I can't deny that. Like I see it right in front of me. Right? And what's interesting is, so a few things I completely understand from my perspective, my experiences when I have been through that, I'm gonna share some of that in a, in a bit. But I'm also curious for you, because this is partly what I found, was that there were things that, on the one hand I would say I would never do this like to, to somebody else, but I do this to myself all the time.
Like, I could identify that. And at the same time, the longer I found myself sitting in that not taking care of myself, not addressing my needs, that inner resentment that was there, ultimately that frustration with life. I will, I've talked about it before, but you know, bluntly, it ultimately would show up in my home life because in my home life, that's where I feel safest. Right? So I don't need to put on any errors. I don't need to put on any faces. I don't need to put any mask up. Right? And of course, the very last people you would ever want to take anything out on are the exact people you end up taking it out on. Right? Cause they, they see you with your hair down, so to speak. And so it's like, oh, right? And that's when I, you know, for me it got mirrored so directly where it's like, okay, this is, this isn't acceptable, speaking to myself, this is not acceptable for, for me to be putting this on my family and I need to start addressing these things. And so I want to talk about that in a moment. But I'm just curious if you, if you found something similar where all of a sudden it does show up in your more trusted or more intimate relationships.
Lisane (09:41):
It used to show up Luke all the time, every day. And I, and I, at that time, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't together. So it would show up and I'd be like, you are getting on my nerves. You, it's funny, it showed up yesterday and I'm really, I'm so happy that you asked that question. I spent yesterday clearing out my dad's house. My dad passed away 10 years ago and we've been in and out of the house and all of that. And finally we, by we, my sister, myself and our stepmom was there too. And I spent all day yesterday going through my father's personal effects, you know, our family's personal effects. Including letters, you know, that I sent to him and you know, records and all kinds of things. And it's been a while. And we've gone through a lot of cathartic experiences, especially with the exhibition that my sister and I put on last year that was kind of a couple of layers deep. And this was kind of a deeper layer of grief because this was different. This had nothing to do with anyone but the people that lived in that house, there was no external nothing. It was just about that. And so I was feeling a little raw by the time I got home and I'm, I'm in New Jersey right now and the three of us, my sister's stepmom and I went out to have lunch, went to The Odeon, I love, and then it took us like two and a half hours to drive home.
So my sister and I drove back into New Jersey and it was all pat. So by the time I got home I was a little, I was kind of done. And I kind of came home and I got myself together and just went into my room to chill. And my daughter was standing in the doorway and she started asking me a question that was work related and I could feel some tension rising in me. And I answered her, but I was answering her from like, the quality of my energy was, I was tense. And I said something and she kind of like, you know, walked away or whatever. And then she came back a few minutes later and I said to her, Jess, I'm sorry I'm a little rock, you know, and you know, today was a little rough. And she said thank you. She said, because I thought you were going to start sharing with me how you know, how hard today was and I thought you were gonna talk about that. And especially since I brought some things, some things are being shipped, but I brought some things home and I kind of laid them down and she said, I thought for sure that you would like just tell me about the day, but instead you started like going in on this work thing. And I was like trying to figure it out. So yeah. I did that last night.
Luke (12:44):
You know, it, it's funny as soon as you said, you know, you know, before I was, you know, kind of making the, the oh-uhm kind of like feeling. And I, I'm just thinking, well of course that was true before the complete evolved mess that I still am. Right? And so that's, it's part of what we wanna continue to remind everybody is this is just, it's an ongoing process. It's an unfolding that we are forever in. And some of this stuff is either deeply rooted or so conditioned within us for so long that we're not gonna get it the first one or two, or maybe even 20 or 30 times that it comes back around. Or we keep just a little bit less, a little bit less, a little bit less like for you to have the awareness to then be able to say something to your daughter that quickly. You know, how many days or weeks could've gone by previously. But now it's a matter of, of a brief period of time where we can say, wait a minute, I've got some awareness around this. And for me, I think a couple of things I wanted to, to put into this was, let me approach this in two different ways. On the one side, and I have a feeling this is gonna be true for you in your, in what it looks like, your context.
I recognize that one of the things that is critically important to me is, and it's like a trait within me, is that I deeply desire to restore balance, restore balance in energy and emotions in life, in situations. It is, it's something that is, is a draw for me. It's something that I, I like to do. And when I am not aware, what I recognize that in that kind of shadow place, it's where I will do anything I need to, to restore balance. So that can look like taking on burdens for others. It can look like control of a situation. It can look like anything that feels like it's getting things back to order, back to balance in some regard. And that created, you know, all sorts of additional stress, additional burdens, as well as friction with, you know, various people that were around me at different times where I was trying to keep control of things because they were supposed to look a certain way.
And when I was able to finally recognize that, you know, and look that this stuff that's going on outside of me, it's just purely a reflection of something that actually is like a value and a quality and part of who I am, but I am portraying and I'm presenting it in an imbalanced way. I'm doing it out of shadow, I'm doing it out of stress. I'm doing it out of not my higher self. But then when I can step back and recognize, okay, there was something of genuine love and concern that was in the energy of what I wanted to do, but how can I do that now from that place of greater awareness of that place of light so that when I'm bringing it forward, I can help restore balance, but recognize it's not up to me to restore it for somebody else.
I'd, I can hold space for them, I can support them at the name of the show on this walk. I could walk with them, I can do those things, but I cannot do it for them. And as far as control, I needed to recognize the way in which, listen, we're part of nature, we're part of life, life nature will always restore balance, always. It's a universal natural law. It will return to balance. And so it's how do I cooperate with the ways things want to come back into balance as opposed to trying to control them. And so I had to work through some of those types of things to grow patients and grow humility in ways that, you know, really was humbling through this process that I've been on and still am on. And so for me, I guess it, you know, I'm curious with you in what you found, like those areas that were being mirrored back to you, that had the frustration that didn't have the self care, what, my guess is it was also mirroring the true intention that you had, meaning the real energy, the love that was underneath, and you just needed to be able to bring it out in a different way that was more aligned to your essential self.
Lisane (16:59):
Absolutely. And I, I love that description. Yes. So it was, it would come out in, or it would start with I really want to be in healthy relationship with this person, right? But there's a process and there are hard conversations that have to happen and there are boundaries that need to be set and there are things that need to be heard and said. And what I was attempting to do was to fast forward to that. And to attempt to also hold that person to this vision that I had for the relationship or the interaction, whether that was someone within my family or a friend or my community or even in work situations. What I was attempting to do, and I think a lot of people do that is, you know, this is what a perfect work relationship looks like. So you are not doing that and you need to be doing this. You know, because I want it to very quickly, you know, fast forward to realizing that vision and that just was not, that's just not how it works. There's a process to things and ultimately there really is truth in allowing love to lead conversations because from a loving place, I would start with I really love you and I want us to have an amazing relationship and I don't really know what to do. There are some things that are, some ideas that I have, but let's work on this together. Let's figure this out together. You know, with the willingness and a humility to actually hear some things that maybe I did not wanna hear or that don't feel so great hearing. You know, but you have to be willing to be in acceptance and truth.
Luke (19:01):
In what you were just sharing of leading with love. Very recently, I was just listening to an interview with John Philip Newell, this extraordinary, he kind of refers to himself as a traveling teacher. He came out of the Celtic Spirituality traditions and, and anyway, just extraordinary individual, John Philip Newell. And he talks about, as opposed to us starting with this premise of what's wrong or what's broken or where's the guilt lie or any of those types of, of scenarios. And if we start from this place of the recognition of what is deepest or innermost in the person that I am speaking to, let's begin from that premise. And if we begin there, we're already seeing that person. We're seeing the life force, the energy that is existing within them. And this iteration, this being that they are from that place before we're getting into, you know, this, that, the other thing, the tit for tat type of, of who's, who's to blame stuff. And in building that relationship from that place. I love that you said, you know, I was trying to fast forward through this process because, does that, I mean, that hit me of like, oh God, I've done that so many times. Right? We all do, right? My wife and I keep a vegetable garden out back and we, you know, we love it and everything else, but you don't plant on Mother's Day weekend and pick fruit the next day. It's, you gotta commit to the season.
Lisane (20:38):
Why not?
Luke (20:39):
Come on. I want my tomatoes.
Lisane (20:41):
Let's go out right now. I don't care about the rain and the earth and all that. Yeah.
Luke (20:46):
Right. Come on. But we've gotta commit to the season. We've gotta commit to the process. I love that you bring that up because we do live in a world right now that wants to speed ahead faster than the pace of nature. You know, we want quarterly profits, we want monthly statements. We want the 24 hour news cycle that has to have news going all the time and fed in our face and what's the next thing and the next story, the next tragedy. And so it's like all this now, now, now notifications that won't leave us alone. Right. And so for us to slow down and take a look at what's this process? What is this unfolding that is taking place in our lives with our relationships? And put it in that context now all of a sudden to where we were talking about on, on shaping freedom and what we began with today.
It's not only time, but it's space. Yes. We're allowing a spaciousness around the unfolding. And that's for ourselves. It's for the people we're in relationship with. It might be for the situations within our life. It applies to many things. And so much of our stress comes from trying to just like push forward and meet the, this artificial deadline we've created or just this constant struggle and push and push and push for more. And let me get more done. Let me get more in. And we don't need that. I think the piece that I also saw in your writing was around forgiveness. And I wanted to go into that part of it as well, because that part of that inner work and getting right inside, there's a lot of forgiveness to be done there.
Lisane (22:24):
I think that with other people, people really want to be heard. If there's something that I've done to offend you, you are probably wanting somewhere in our process of getting back to whole relationship, you're probably going to want me to hear something from you so that we can get to a place of acceptance and forgiveness. And that's true of us as well. You know, I think we sometimes humans get so caught up in this culture that we've created and that we're living within and attempting to perform within that we have tricked ourselves into believing that we can just kind of run this ongoing never ending race in every area of our lives and still be okay. You know, I think that some of that dialogue is a dialogue that we also have to have with ourselves where there is incredible value in healing and love and affection that happens when you're willing to sit down with yourself and say, hey, you know what, Lisane, I know you're really tired and I know that you, you know, 12 days ago you started talking about how, how you really needed a break and we just kept on going.
Right? And sometimes that happens and you know, sometimes it's warranted, you know, rarely. Uh, and sometimes it's not. But I think that just like in the relationships that we have with other people, there is this ongoing dialogue with ourselves and it includes the same elements of a quality relationship, you know, that we have with other people. Forgiveness, you know, please forgive me and let's move on, right? Because that's the way I believe that you get right with yourself. Because if once I'm willing to see myself as a human being, as a woman who is living and breathing and you know, not just, you know, a meeting or a bottom line or you know, a P&L, once I'm willing to see myself as a human being who makes mistakes and who is trying her best, then I can have true compassion for other people.
Luke (24:57):
Self forgiveness used to be a major challenge for me. I would use any small misstep as a way to beat myself up or keep myself in line for the future. I actually was usually more forgiving of others, though certainly not all the time. I was more forgiving of others because they deserved it more, whereas I didn't. At least that's what it felt like. And then I tried to change that. But really all I ended up doing was reversing it, giving myself the benefit of the doubt, but not others. Why did the pendulum swing this way? Because I hadn't really gotten to the root of what was going on. I hadn't spent time truly looking at my relationship with myself. The relationship we so quickly forget about. Initially, I wasn't quick to forgive myself because I didn't deserve it, or so I thought, because there was this question of being worthy, that I tried to be more forgiving of myself.
But honestly I became less compassionate and forgiving to others. There was this self-centeredness to this approach. And this really was just overcompensation for, again, that question of worthiness. I needed to explore deeper, not just to resolve the surface tension, but to address what was really going on. What made forgiveness and self-compassion so challenging for me? Well, to be honest, I could give you the long dialogue and story about needing to grow up young, pushing myself was some form of safety and so on and so on and so on. But that narrative, well it's just that, it's a narrative. What was beneath the story? You see, I was using this need to push, this need to get it right, this need to know, and all these various forms as a way of driving myself forward. It was a motivator of sorts to get me to do more, to achieve more, to keep going.
And it was beginning to really cost me because I was getting crosswise with my inner self, with my true nature. The truth was I needed to let a lot of old patterns fall away. And that meant stepping into a very unknown and very uncertain space. Who you are is not a bundle of patterns and conditioning, although that's how most of us show up in this world. And I wanted to get to know myself free of these. And this has been my journey to create a robust relationship and dialogue with that deepest inner most part of me. To be able to call it out when I'm acting out of conditioning or old narratives or any narrative for that matter, to be able to actually sit with myself and listen deeply and to have the patience for the answers to come bit by bit on their time as I've grown this relationship is awareness as patience.
It's also given me much greater compassion for myself as well as for others. I'm more aware than ever before of the layers upon layers of conditioning that are directing us unconsciously. How whatever our past experiences, our upbringing and influence have been, are still in fact trying to be present in us today. And I can have compassion for this because I've seen it so deeply within myself. I had to prioritize knowing myself in this way, building this relationship to finally feel at home again. And then be able to offer that sense of peace and acceptance to others. Now let's turn back to our conversation with Lisane, as we also extend this conversation into balance, another critical piece of finding freedom as well as finding ourselves.
Lisane (28:19):
And I just, one thing I wanted to add in, if you don't mind, about a word on balance. I spent a lot of my life trying to be in balance. And what I discovered, and actually I think so I'm giving some credit to the right person, I think Matt James, who is one of my teachers, said something about like, it's not balance, it's harmony. Right? And I think that there's always been this, especially working in corporate where everything's like work life balance. Right? And so what that implies is that there's this, there's always this equal participation of things. And I believe that that's not always possible. And if it is, it's fleeting. And the image for me of balance puts me in a state of tension because that means that I have to assume that everything, like, I have to assume that every time I show up that you're gonna show up exactly in the same way that I am. Or that work is always going to be in perfect balance with my home life. And I think harmony for me feels like a better state. Because what that means is that even if I'm working 12 hours a day, you know, the question is, is that in harmony with the rest of my life?
Luke (29:49):
It's an important part of this journey, right? Is that when we're in that space and things are falling apart and falling away, so much of what has occurred is that we have become very imbalanced in our relationships, or in work, or in our emotions, in our energy and our thoughts. And for me, I very deeply resonate with that frame of harmony and my image with balance. Cause I mean, I've, people can look on the website, I've written articles, literally, I think the title is 'Balance is Bullshit'. But I mean it in the sense of kind of like, you know, balance is dead, long live balance. In the image we have of balance, this myth of balance is like the scales of justice where everything is just like perfectly like balanced in this equal manner. And to me, balance is much more like the surfer riding a wave.
Because things are going to ebb, they're gonna flow, they're gonna crash, they're gonna break, they're gonna go left when you think they were gonna go right, it's gonna happen. And so what do you do? You harmonize with it. You flow with what's occurring. And that's where you find your balance is that it doesn't matter which way this is gonna go. I can go with it, I can harmonize with it, I can flow with it. And it's a very, very different understanding of balance. And there are, it's stuff that I coach about and teach about is there are certain qualities within us, there are certain things within us we can focus on that creates that ease to be able to flow this way so you don't get so stuck or rigid, which is how most of balance is approached in this conversation.
Lisane (31:23):
Thank you for clarifying that.
Luke (31:25):
Yeah. So it's, it's, we'll leave it at that, that rigidity is what we wanna watch out for and get to that harmony. To get to that flow. The pieces that I wanted to come back to, because forgiveness was also, it was so critical to me in different aspects and different parts of my journey. And where for me, I, I'll be honest, I needed to start more on the forgiveness or the connection with others and having empathy with others. And that all of a sudden like, oh, I can now give myself permission because I can consider myself a human being now too. And, right? And so for me, there was a lot of different things, I think I've talked about equal empathy on, on this show before. So let me share some, a different angle, when we truly get to know somebody's background and everything that they've been through, which is difficult, right?
You can't actually know everything about a person. But when we can really truly appreciate that all of the experiences that they have ever been through in their life have shaped the way that they show up in life at this moment in time. And so if there is something that may be dissonant, creating discord between you two, it probably, almost definitely, is not about the exact moment in time, but it's about previous experiences that they are bringing into this present moment. And you are bringing into this present moment as well. And when I'm able to look at things that way, you know, some individuals that I had a lot of conflict with in my life through, you know, through 40 some odd years, when all of a sudden I could, I could really truly see their genuine path as best as I could understand it, being an outsider looking into whatever their life, you know, must have been like for them to go through.
All of a sudden there was a spaciousness that opened up in me of they, and this also ties to some of the mindfulness and Buddhist training that I had, was I recognized so much of them is just like, we all are, we want more happiness. We want more things that bring us joy and we want less things that bring us the pain and the hurts and the traumas into our life. Right? And when I was able to, to see that and now see pretty much everybody through that lens, at least when I'm stepped and present with myself and centered with myself, seeing that there is so much more that they bring into this moment. So look for that deepest, self look for the fact or just remind yourself that you know nothing of the true experience of life that they have been through. And that if something is creating discord, if something is presenting as off to you, remember it has so much more to do about a context you can't see right now.
So slow down, give them space to, like you said, to be seen, to be heard. You don't have to agree with it. You don't have to, and that's where I, I get cautious because acceptance does not mean agreement. Acceptance is a statement of this just is, what it is at this time. Right. And now, now we can acknowledge you are experiencing this and you have said that you experience and feel and think these things, I'm experiencing this and this and this and this and feeling this. You don't need to be right or wrong. I don't need to be right or wrong because it's our experience of things. For us to be able to allow people to speak, usually what you find is that they will sort through things and you can just simply ask them, tell me more about that. What did that bring up for you?
What, you know, what were you experiencing? Or what were you feeling at those times? So it allows them to start clearing through what's there, because very often they'll get to the heart of the matter of, I remember a time with, with even business partners where somebody had expressed, you know, there, there was a lot of frustration, felt like there was a lot of roadblocks going on in, in different things we were trying to do. And ultimately after we were able to sit down and have a very deep conversation, the phrase came out from, from somebody that they had felt like the change in direction was leaving them abandoned. And that was the real truth of what was going on for that person. But that's not what the circumstances looked like. The circumstances looked totally different. Right? So to create that space, so now all of a sudden we have a completely different level of understanding. Forgiveness at that point is almost like a breeze in the, in a sense of I see you, like I can see you and I feel you and your experience of what you're sharing. And I am sorry that you have gone through that and I'm, I'm sorry for the way that this has unfolded and the experience that we've had and I'm so happy we can now have this conversation. It just opens so much.
Lisane (36:20):
And it's that space, and I think that that's one of the things that we are almost trained and programmed to not need is space. And in any conversation, you know, to get down to the truth of a matter, you know, being able to allow someone even the opportunity to think and to process. So often we're so enthusiastic about sharing our opinion about things that we want the person to like take it, digest it, give it back to me in the way that I wanna use it, you know. And like, you know, like you said, we're the sum total, you and I even on this conversation, you know, we are each the sum total of all of our experiences, you know, that we've had up until this very doorway moment and some of the experiences of the people that came before us that have also contributed to creating and programming the human beings that are just sitting here in front of us. And so having some room and space or, and allowing another person, giving it to ourselves and allowing another person to do the same. And I think it's also so much more efficient, because then we don't have to unravel all the stupid stuff that we wind up throwing onto the plate. You know, that had nothing to do with the deeper core thing that we really wanted to talk.
Luke (37:49):
Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. And you know, you, you go through these processes and like you brought it around to we can then apply this to ourselves and really start to sit with what has been the experiences, the stories, the narratives of our lives, and be able to see when did we gravitate towards the things that brought about imbalance or how that's acting out of unconscious or shadow because we didn't know how to address what we really needed and wanted in those moments. And then how do we start to see this is actually what I was after, this is where I was going. And so we start to get that clarity back and we can begin to own it. We can begin to sit in it, we can begin to do those things. It was something I actually wanted to mention before as you were, you were talking about getting right inside, was that we forget we really actually need, saying that intentionally, to address our needs before our wants.
And we get those reverse so often. I want this, I want that because that's usually more the ego story or the control story or the way that I create certainty in my life is I want these things and what I need is connection. What I need is that sense of love and peace and balance within me and with others that are, that are closest to me. And so the more that I get clear on my needs, it's funny how many wants have fallen away actually in that process. It's like, oh yeah, that'd be fun. Don't get me wrong. It'd be kind of, that'd be, you know, I'd be pretty entertaining to go that way. But I don't need it. If things get simpler when we do that.
Lisane (39:35):
Absolutely. Because you're building from the inside out. I used to be a health and beauty aid. Maybe it was an addiction. I don't know, where I wanted all the things and I would go and I would buy like, and I still love those things. Right? I wanted lots of things that would, that I could use at some future time to bring myself some self-care. Or to bring myself a moment of peace or a moment of luxury of, you know, of personal luxury of some kind. And I did all of those things at the time, purchase those things. Because what I really needed was some time. What I really needed was to be able to set some boundaries in my life that would allow me to have a moment on stage in my own life. That's what I really, really needed.
But it showed up as wanting a bunch of things that I could never at the time in my lifetime even go through. Like who needs five bags of epsom salts when I, you know, I mean, at one time, you know, and I would have like these on shelves. It was this whole thing and it, you know, again, an outward expression of what I really, really needed. You know, that was, that was manifesting itself through, or that I was attempting to manifest through buying things. Until I realized that it, once I get clear about like, what are my needs? What are my values? Who am I? Who am I? What do I, as a being, need in order to be healthy and calm and centered and balanced and in harmony with my life? What does, what does that look like? And once I was able and willing to start to identify those things and those building blocks, my wants became very different. And my life became much more simple. You know, because a walk, you know, a walk would do it. I mean like, don't get me wrong. I love, I love a luxurious bath, you know, I just do, you know, don't get me wrong. I still, you know, I still love those things and it's really about the intention behind it and about, you know, taking care of myself from the inside so that I really enjoy the things that I then want.
Luke (42:14):
That's a beautiful illustration of this. And it allows us to begin to peel back, right? Of what's really underneath, what's really at work here. And I'll even, I'll even step, but you actually did it. I just want to use the question that I used to, to help people get there was even before, who am I, I begin with, what am I? And, and for me, I look at it, I look at myself, I look at us as energetic beings.
And, and that goes for all of life. That is that, that we experience inside of this world that we are in. And so that lets me know, okay, if that's what I am, and then I am a human version of that energetic being, what do I as a human need, exactly as you said, to take care of myself, to, to make sure that I am healthy, to the degree that I can be. Now I'm asking myself some very different questions that are not about ego. They're about something beyond that, something broader than that. And I say it that way because very often I had to go through this when I would ask my own questions of like, what are my values? A lot of the values that I had, or I should say the definitions of the values that I had, were chosen out of ego and preference. Were chosen out of this, this is the way, if things are like this, then I feel like life is aligned and life is good. And now it's actually no, let me look at what are the qualities within me that are part of my essence that when I bring them out, I'm bringing the value to my life? As opposed to lining things up that, that feel valuable. And so it is that inside out, it is that getting right within and bringing that out into our lives. And when we do that, we begin to really, truly understand our needs. When we say our values, it's more the value that we choose to bring forward in our life. And it's a, it creates a very different life. And I think that's the, the, the, you know, kind of the last part of this, this aspect of the conversation is to remind everybody if what's outside is reflective of inside, that means you're a creator. You created it. If you can create that, what else can you create?
Lisane (44:37):
Exactly. I love that you brought that into this conversation, Luke, because I think people, I think that there's this fear that a lot of people have, you know, they're just afraid to admit that we are creators. And that's not a diss to God. In my mind that is, and in my heart that is total accolades. Because what that means is that I truly understand that I truly am a piece of God. Like that's what it's all about. Like I am a piece of God manifested in this body, in this lifetime, as Lisane Basquiat. You, I believe are a piece of God manifested as Luke Iorio. And because of that, we do have the ability to create. And I don't believe that it's a matter of like telling you that you can create, it's a recognition and an awareness that we're creating every single day. We're creating our experiences through the words that we speak, through what I'm willing to hear from you and what I'm not through, what I believe about my abilities and about what I can truly manifest, we're creating every single day. So if you can see that you're creating, then you can truly acknowledge that, receive it, except that it is what it is. And then look at that plate and start making some decisions about how you wanna move forward and how to let some things that may be standing in the way of your vision fall away.
Luke (46:24):
Yes. So let me ask you this as we, as we kind of bring things around full circle is, I'm curious a little bit about those practices for you, right? Your, your show, your business is even called Shaping Freedom. What is that? Creating freedom, right? That's part of, it's right there. And for me, same type of thing of this walk is a walk of creation and it's co-creation because we are also in the unfolding of this grand experiment, whatever we choose to call it, right? And so I'm curious about what are some of the practices that you use today that keep you either on track or returning to track?
Lisane (47:09):
And thank you for acknowledging that because you know, it is an ongoing thing. There is, I think that when I first, first, first went to coach, you know, went to IPEC, I had this belief that I would go in there and then suddenly I would have the license and agency to be the Yoda. You know, I got it all figured out. Let me tell you how to fix your life. And what it, all it did was show me that there's a mirror that I can choose to look into. And there's this ongoing, you know, relationship that I'm in with myself. And so what I do to bring myself to balance is I remember what's important to myself and that's actually how I define values. Like what's important to me about, you know, this particular area of my life. And once I know what is important to me, I am really clear in a loving way about setting boundaries with myself and treating those things as what I truly need in order to show up as my best self.
And in order for me to be in positive rapport with my higher self, is understanding what's truly important to me. And so what that means is something may look shiny and I may, I may want to do something, but if it's out of alignment with what I know I really need, I'm not going to do it. With love, without rejecting, not with rejection, but with love. You know, I can turn it over to someone else to do. So for me it's really simple. It's walks, it is understanding that I am a person and a being made up of my mind, body, spirit and emotions and bringing those things into harmony and balance and keeping them in harmony and balance. What that means is walks help my mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical. So that's a no brainer for me. Journaling helps me to clear my mind and to process some of my emotions. My spirituality is in all things. It's actually my number one value in life. That is all things, everything. And so for me it's the really simple things. It's speaking truth, speaking authenticity, speaking from a place of authenticity. It is accepting and understanding other people and understanding that my view is not the only one. And it's, you know, just the very simple things. Lots of hydration, you know, eating quality food, taking walks and having really nice connecting conversations with other human beings.
Luke (50:06):
I appreciate that. As you described all these different practices you addressed at a spiritual level, a mental level and emotional and a physical level. It's not just one thing. It's embracing this, this wholeness of who it is that we are and bringing that into our practices as to how we keep ourselves centered and connected. Or return to being centered and connected. Cause you will need to return.
Lisane (50:32):
Right. Because anytime that I'm feeling overwhelmed or out of it or like I just can't take another moment, when I turn around and look at what's going on, it's because one of those things is out of whack or I'm not paying attention and one of those things.
Luke (50:44):
Yeah. Well Lisane, I am so glad that you took this walk with us today.
Lisane (50:49):
I am thrilled taking this walk with you.
Luke (50:52):
Yet again, we probably could keep going for another hour. But I am just delighted that we were able to do this, to be able to speak on Shaping Freedom and now here On This Walk and I look forward to where we may walk again next.
Lisane (51:07):
Yes, sir. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Luke (51:11):
Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation. To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to onthiswalk.com and click on Community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join. Until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.