038 - Moving Out of Pain and into Our Authentic Power
This week on On This Walk, we're talking about helping people go on a deep inner journey to find themselves, their deepest truth, and the fulfillment they've longed for their whole life. My walking partner today, Jennifer DePascale, understands this all too well.
Jennifer DePascale is a self-realization expert, international speaker, coach, and RTT therapist. She believes that each and every one of us has unique gifts, a powerful intuition, and a call from life that only we can connect to. She is a student of life and has studied at the Marisa Peer School, the Four Winds Society, Vesica Institute, Mind Valley, and many others.
Listen in as we discuss a variety of topics including a recent Oxford Talks she participated in, the process of internalization and the concept of radical responsibility, and how she brings her clients back into alignment with their inner knowing so they can live to their full potential.
In This Episode
(06:54) – When we talk about our power, what do we mean?
(09:28) – Explaining the process of internalizing and how it happens.
(14:12) – Clearing out and arriving at a more empowered place.
(16:04) – The little voice, the inner guidance system calling you to your true self.
(20:36) – The idea of how we learn to listen within.
(27:22) – Going deep into nature to receive deeper messages.
(30:06) – The path of speaking up and staying true.
(34:35) – Creating space to relate and work with life differently.
(36:51) – Changing the collective by working on ourselves.
(43:22) – The concept of radical responsibility.
(52:31) – Jennifer on coming full circle and how her life is different now.
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“There is so much hurt and pain that we are walking around with at any given time and we are projecting that out onto the world. But if we want to actually change that collective, we don't change the collective by working on the collective. We change the collective by working on ourselves so that we show up differently, so that we let different information in, we let different experiences in, and then we begin to shine that light, that consciousness, that awareness back out. But it's not by trying to fix the other, but by trying to heal ourselves, by trying to create that space within us.”
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“The more that you come into alignment with your soul and what your purpose is and what your higher self wants from you, the more of all of those above-the-line emotions you feel. The peace, the joy, the happiness, the fulfillment, the ‘I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring’, ‘I don't set goals the way that all the business people do’, we're much more open to life and knowing that I am on the right path, it's like life happens for us. Everything around you, all of the forces are like cheering you on and saying, yes, we've got your back. And you start seeing signs of it in your life and synchronicities, and all sorts of amazing things happen.”
Our Guest
Jennifer DePascale believes that each and every one of us has soul gifts and a unique call from life. After years of unlocking her own truths, she was called to teach and coach others on how to quiet the noise of their inner and outer worlds to find the messages hiding in the depths of stillness within. She has been helping people go on a deep inner journey to find themselves, their deepest truth, and the fulfillment they've longed for their whole life.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
Jennifer DePascale
Mentions
Oxford Talks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiBh3CrqukQ&ab_channel=OxfordTalks
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[00:00:00] Jennifer: When we don't set boundaries, we're enabling behavior and we're not giving the other human an opportunity to wake up because it's through relationships that we have our awakenings.
[00:00:12] Luke: Welcome to On This walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart-centered guests each week.
[00:00:22] As we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul, and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Hello everyone, and once again, welcome to On This Walk. So, for today, you know, I want to start here.
[00:00:42] It's that I've heard this phrase so many times and in a great number of contexts over the last decade, and that is take your power back. But in reality, what in the heck does this mean? Is it just a nice sounding catchphrase that feels strong, but it's really just fluffy? Is it an excuse that we get to use to act however we want in the name of taking our power back?
[00:01:04] What is it really? Well, this brings to mind actually a couple of other phrases that are important here. One of those phrases actually still has a bit of a cringe factor for me. And another is I see perhaps a little all too misunderstood, but they both relate here. So, let’s use these. The first one is to speak your truth.
[00:01:30] I feel that in my gut. I feel it like a lump. Because contrary to the frequency of the use of this phrase, and I'll admit I've used it myself, is that no one owns the truth personally. The truth is the truth. That said, you may have your experience of that truth. That is in the truth of your experience, but the truth of your experience and the truth aren't necessarily the same things.
[00:02:00] Matter of fact, they rarely are. The truth is the truth, regardless of your experience of it. It's unwavering. Our experience is just that our experience of the truth or of any given situation, whether it's truth or not, it's just our experience. So why is this relevant to taking our power back? How does this help us understand our power?
[00:02:21] Well, part of taking our power back means recognizing what is the truth of what's going on. In today's conversation, we're going to give you a lens, a few actually, one of which is the disempowerment triangle or cycle. I actually covered this just a couple of episodes ago with David Emerald Womeldorff. Today, we'll get into it a bit more personally, for my guest and I, along with other perspectives that help us step back and see what's really going on here.
[00:02:48] What's real, what's truth? In what ways am I giving up my power? Now here I specifically mean power as our personal sovereignty, meaning we fully own our bodies, our emotions, our minds, our soul. We have agency over our lives. At the end of the day, we set our course and when we give up our course, when we let others dictate who we are and how we feel about ourselves and what we feel we can do in this life, well, we've given up our power.
[00:03:25] The second phrase that I want to introduce to you here, that is also relevant is to be true to ourselves. This is something that has been a phrase for me for a very long time, but I feel like I need to amend it slightly just to be a little more accurate. And that is for me, this statement really is to be true to our true selves.
[00:03:46] You see, one of the ways that we give away our power, our personal sovereignty, is by acting from our shadow selves, from our fear-based and ego-based selves. When we act from illusion; when we act from limiting beliefs and assumptions; when we act from our hurts and our pains, we are not being true to our true selves.
[00:04:07] We're being true to our hurt or small selves. When our true self is what it really is, is light. Our true self is truth. It's peace, it's consciousness. It's our higher self-unconstrained by the limiting thinking imbalances and fragility of our egos. To stand in our power is to stand in our true selves, and I believe today's conversation will help you take further steps in that direction or build further resolve to the path and way that is already emerging for you.
[00:04:41] My guest and walking partner today is a friend and colleague that I've gotten to know over the past 18 months or so. We took a wonderful program at the Four Winds Society with Dr. Alberto Villoldo together. My guest is Jennifer DePascale. Jennifer believes that each and every one of us has soul gifts and a unique call from life.
[00:05:02] After years of unlocking her own truths, she was called to teach and coach others on how to quiet the noise of their inner and outer worlds to find the messages hiding in the depths of stillness within. She uses a combination of ancient spiritual truths, coupled with modern techniques to help our clients release their past, connect back to their soul, find their authentic truth, and step into theair personal.
[00:05:25] She also gave a recent Oxford talk that we're going to chat a little bit about and share the link to for your viewing inside of the show notes. Now, as always, if you are not already a subscriber to the show, do me a favor, please smash that subscribe button so that you never miss one of our episodes. And now today, let's go on this walk with Jennifer and reclaiming our personal power.
[00:05:51] Jennifer, I want to thank you for being here on this walk. We've chatted a bit about being on the show and, and we've kind of come up in conversation among us over the course of, what, about a year and a half or so, I guess, that we've gotten to know each other. Part of what led into this conversation is a, a wonderful talk that you gave for Oxford and it had to do with this idea of taking our power back.
[00:06:11] And there's a whole lot that's really underneath that and I think maybe that might be a jumping off point is actually to even explain a little bit of that phrase, because I've heard that idea of, you know, taking our power back or stepping into our personal power. I've heard that in so many ways, and at times I've heard it in ways that are a little bit more of that prototypical or stereotypical personal development way as opposed to what I know is more underneath what you're describing at and getting at. And so I would love for you to make a little bit of that distinction so people don't believe this is taking our power back in terms of force or in terms of ego or anything like that.
[00:06:48] So if you could maybe start there and help us draw some distinctions about what does it mean? What are we talking about when we talk about our power?
[00:06:53] Jennifer: I actually like to use an example, which I use a jar of rocks, which I have up there, but I'm not going to get, because this is a podcast anyway. But you know, I use this little jar of rocks and I explain it as this is our power, right? This is what we were inherently born with, that we came into this world. Knowing who we are, this is all of the positive everything. And throughout our lives we give some of the power away. So, you know, we may go to school and somehow, we are criticized that we're not good at math or something.
[00:07:22] And so, when somebody says that to us, if we internalize that belief and we bring it in, in our life, in our world, right now, we've decided that we're not good at math. Now we've taken some of those rocks out of the jar and we've given it to say, the math teacher, right? And then, you know, we may go home and our parents have certain expectations of us. You know, our parents definitely have a dream for our lives, and then we also have a dream for our lives, and they don't always line up. And so we develop beliefs or we feel like we need to be a good child or a good kid, and then we, when we inherit something that's not ours, we're taking some of those rocks and giving it out.
[00:07:56] And then, the other really big place it happens often is in our religions, that somebody outside of you is telling you, you have to believe this or else you're not part of this. And it can be outside, it can be political parties, it can be so many different places. But you know, again, if somebody's giving you a belief that doesn't resonate with you, we're taking those rocks and we're taking part of our power and giving it to somebody else.
[00:08:16] Luke: Several things I took from that. But one that popped out at me is when, you know, you describe initially like we're born and that power's innately within us. It's that strength, that rock that exists within us. Part of me also, I guess, resonates with the idea that that's our truth. It's who we are.
[00:08:32] And that even as you started to describe it, part of it is giving it away. But I also, it's funny cause I, I just had a different like image in my head when you started to describe it, which people have probably seen the different, you know, viral video that was out there of how that power gets covered.
[00:08:45] Right as if it pours sand in the jar. Right? And so, it's how that truth continually gets covered up and what we need to do to be able to be back in touch with it, to excavate it, to clear it away yet again, so that we can really get a sense of it. And I think that one of the words that jumped out at me that I don't think most people really understand how this works, and I'm hoping you could, you can elaborate on this, is that idea of internalizing.
[00:09:10] What it is that we hear, right? So that we don't realize we're giving away some of that power. We're giving away some of the truth of who we are because we hear something, we feel something, we experience something, and then we internalize it. Can you explain more of what, what you mean by internalizing and maybe even how it happens?
[00:09:28] Jennifer: Yeah. In that same Oxford talk, I explain how for most of our lives until we kind of have this an awakening, right? We believe that there's just this one world that we're exploring that everything is connected, but that it's just one world. And I think that we really start to step into our power when we realize that we're really navigating too. We're navigating this world that, you know, you and I are here looking at the physical world that we're navigating together, but each of us has this own unique inner spiritual world that nobody else will ever know. You and I can become good friends and we can have great conversations, and you give me glimpses of when you have really good friendships and people are vulnerable, what they're doing is they're showing you what's actually happening in their inner world.
[00:10:13] What I mean by internalizing is, recognizing that you are the keeper of that inner world. Nobody else knows it. It's your job to show it to the world. What you bring out, how you act, how you are in the world is a reflection. Well, it's a choice really, of what you want to bring out. And so, when we're internalizing something, it's somebody outside of us is telling us something about ourselves or is implying or whatever.
[00:10:38] And we get to choose, you know, that's really the difference between being asleep and being awake is recognizing that there's a choice in that moment that if somebody's calling me names or saying I'm not good enough, or I can't have this, if I decide that's true, that's what's internalizing. If I decide that, you know what, they've got their own things going on, I can see that they're just in a lot of pain and they're taking it out on me, then that's when we set proper boundaries and that's when we really protect our inner world and we become the keepers of it and we maintain our power. You know, they can affect us, but we get to choose what we want. And then again, keeping the power is choosing the things that feel good.
[00:11:17] Right? Does it feel good to believe I'm not good at math or whatever it is, right? No. Right. But they may say, wow, you know, you're amazing at podcasting, Luke, you know, and that feels good for you. And so that's something, that's a belief you want to take. And so, it's your choice to take it in.
[00:11:32] Luke: One of the further aspects of this though is because, I love the emphasis on choice, right?
[00:11:38] Of choosing what it is that, that we are going to believe, allow in or not. And at the same time, to take that step back. What most of us need to recognize is that what we've been through is that most of the beliefs that we have internalized are beliefs that came at a time that we were a lot younger and we didn't have that part of our function, our consciousness function, not even cognitive function, consciousness function that allowed us to say, wait a minute, that belief. Doesn't apply to me that it's something that that's something about my mom or my dad or my brother or my sister. It's not about me. I'm not taking that on. But unfortunately, the people around us that are raising us or that we're part of culturally societally don't have that level of understanding yet.
[00:12:18] So they're just projecting out whatever it is that feels right for them. And usually, we start taking on these beliefs when we're a lot younger and then later on when we start to hear other similar beliefs we hear other circumstances. It's just like this piling on type of effect of, oh yeah, of course I'm going to believe that because it relates to such and such time that something else already happened that that seems similar.
[00:12:39] I want to get to how we unwind some of that. And how we get to that point of being more conscious in what we let in and choose. But I do want to further elaborate on what you also said with the two worlds that we live in, because I think that's such an important distinction for everybody to understand, is that it really is.
[00:12:56] It's like navigating this inner world and this outer world. And they crossover constantly. Some have heard me maybe refer to the Mobius strip. It's that infinity loop that turns in on itself. So, what is it within becomes without, right. And so, it's going to dance that way all along. And for us to remember that at the end of the day, we do have this inner world that we get to care for very differently.
[00:13:19] And it may need some clearing out. We may need to do some work. So that what's in there is what we are consciously choosing to get in there. We'll certainly add on to whatever you you'd want to there. But I guess maybe where I want to steer then is towards that idea of how do we get to that point of choice?
[00:13:37] Because it feels like there's so much for us to clear and there's so much for us to recognize. Part of the reality that we live in that's created from some of the sediment that's, you know, sat within us. Some of those limitations or blocks that we've taken on, we end up projecting. So much of what's within us out onto the world.
[00:13:58] And then our outer experience is like, well of course I'm not going to believe this because look at my outer world. Forgetting the role that we played in creating that. It's almost like chicken or the egg. Where do we, where do we enter this loop from so that we can start clearing out and arriving at a more empowered place?
[00:14:12] Jennifer: As far as clearing out, it starts when, when you have that first awareness, that stuff in my life's not going the way that I want it to, that things feel off. I'm not happy, I'm not satisfied. Maybe the outer world things look like everything's fine, you know, you've achieved all the things or whatever, and yet inside you're still feeling lost or empty, or whatever.
[00:14:34] That's how we start, is that awareness that something's got to give, that we start seeing that we're making all these changes in the outer world and it's still not changing the inner world. And then, as far as you know, yes, most of us have a lot of garbage. I love analogies. And so another analogy I often use is how, when we first start this work, What we're really trying to do is connect back to our soul, to our higher self, to our intuition, whatever you want to call it.
[00:15:00] But we all have this inner guiding force within us that is trying to lead us into our purpose, into fulfillment, into satisfaction. But we have so many voices going on in our head. It's like we're at a concert and everybody's screaming. There's noise from inside us. There's noise from outside. And your soul just whispers, like, just, it's not going to scream.
[00:15:22] It's trying to get you to wake up because all the screaming voices are the reason that we feel off and lost in the first place. It's really just a matter of consciously making the choice to say, okay, this part of me that's screaming this fear about this, or this trauma that hasn't been healed, or, you know, this relationship that doesn't feel good.
[00:15:41] I mean, there's so many different things that it could be, but it's the conscious choice that I'm going to do the inner work first to heal that, and then, you know, after I've done that work, then we can see if the outer world, you know, things still need to shift in our outer world.
[00:16:04] Luke: This little voice, this inner guidance system. You know the voice that comes up and it usually gives you a perspective that feels like truth and also can be really scary because it's usually asking you to listen to something that's been calling you, but it requires you to either make a change or face something that you've been trying to avoid.
[00:16:24] Yeah, that's the little voice that we're talking about, and as we're talking about it now, I mentioned this in the intro to the episode as well. This little voice is actually calling you back to your true self. And it's very likely guiding you to ways to reclaim the power and sovereignty of who you really are.
[00:16:42] We want to cultivate our relationship and connection to this little voice. You've heard it on many past episodes. Go back and look at the episodes with Dre Ben Dewald, or Alexis, or the other episode with Matt Hogan and Billy Ward. Many others as well because this is all about learning to listen within.
[00:17:01] There are many practices for this, which you can hear on those episodes that I just mentioned. But the key is this. It's about reducing the resistance and friction that lies in the way and interrupts you from being able to hear this voice more clearly and trusted. So, this often means taking intentional time to get space to be still, to be quiet.
[00:17:23] And that needs to be done long enough for the mental chatter to die down. It may mean taking longer walks, getting out in nature, getting time away with solitude and quiet. It also means working perhaps with a circle, a coach, a therapist, a professional, or someone trained that can help you move beyond the voices of resistance and friction.
[00:17:44] That are calling you away from this deeper voice that rises from the truth of who you are. Well, we've got more to go on this, so let's dive back in with Jennifer.
[00:18:02] So what I hear in that, which I very much resonate with and is very, very consistent with, with things that I've done and coached on and trained on, is that, when we recognize that right in the outer world, that's the stuff that's easy for us to see, right? Because it's tangible. We see it every day.
[00:18:21] We feel it every day. And what you're describing, what, what you're bringing to attention is that if there is something that feels in the outer world, like it is no longer in alignment for you, it is no longer serving you. It's just simply not what you want. I mean, really simple, right? Not what you want anymore, okay is to first flip that around as if it were a mirror, and to say, what is it that is within me right now, that is relating to my life, my circumstances, my relationship, whatever it happens to be in such a way as it's bringing this out. Why is it bringing up discomfort? What is it that is maybe preventing me from showing up and having what I want or being the way, showing up the way that I want so that we, we use every experience of what's going on in our life, our lives yo be able to use that as a lens through which to then look back at ourselves to recognize, oh, wait a minute. I do in some. I've got a relationship to what's going on and how it's getting created. Because at the essence of it we're all creators in our lives, right? And so, when we then do that, the other part I wanted to bring up in what you mentioned, cause I don't want it to go by, is very often once we start doing that in our work and uncovering what needs to be uncovered, clearing out what needs to be cleared out, letting go of attached whatever, it's right.
[00:19:39] We go through that and then start to look back at our external lives and we look around and go, oh, you know what, it's pretty good. It's not so bad. I don't even actually need to make most of the changes I thought I needed to make. Or we may arrive at a place and say, actually I do need to make some changes.
[00:19:55] And now I know more about where I'm going as opposed to just leaping and hoping. Which is what most of us have done. Right. And that's what we're trained to do. It's just, oh no, just change your situation. You're going to feel better about this. And so, maybe you could speak a little bit more to that.
[00:20:12] Because I know you know, it's a topic that is very important to you. It's very close to heart. It's one that comes up consistently on this show, is this idea of how is it that we really learn to listen within, because that's part of what I hear you talking about, right? Is how do we get to that place of stillness, that place of silence.
[00:20:29] So that we can hear more of that truth that's in. That's easier said than done. Listen beneath those voices,
[00:20:36] Jennifer: It sure is. It's a muscle just like everything else. This isn't something that you know, listen to a podcast episode and you go home and try it, and if it doesn't work, you're like, that's for Jen and not for me.
[00:20:45] Right? Another way I like to describe this is I believe that the ancients just understood life differently than us. We've always been sort of taught through school that we are the evolved beings, and we may be the evolved beings from a technological standpoint, but from a spiritual standpoint, I think they were ma way more involved than we are.
[00:21:04] And so the way I like to look at life is back before we lived in civilizations and communities and things, we were a very right-brained society, right? We had to hunt, we had to find, you know, we had to find the food in nature. We didn't grow it in our backyard. And they say if you go to Africa and go on a safari that there's a tracker on the bus, right?
[00:21:25] And they're totally connecting to this right brain place and they're finding where the animals are. And I've never been on one, but I've heard many stories that you'll just be driving along a road and then all of a sudden, he'll say, go that way. And it'll make the car, you know, the driver go in two and a half miles and they find, you know, whatever it is, right?
[00:21:41] And you can't, the left brain can't totally explain why they did. But that's where, you know, people, there's, I think we have a lot of right brain technologies that we're just not fully understanding our power. And so, what happened was as we started shifting into a more, you know, agrarian, we started animal husbandry.
[00:21:59] We started, being able to provide our own food. We didn't need to be as connected to nature anymore. And then we all of a sudden had this external power, right? Like, you have six horses and I have six cows, or whatever it is, right? And, and now I want to take yours because I want to be more powerful.
[00:22:14] And, and we start moving into this stuff external from us. And I think there's more to it than that, but that's, you know, essentially what happened. And we start seeing the intellect as the king, right? That if we can't think it, if we can't describe it, or scientifically or whatever that science is king. And, you know, the left brain's amazing.
[00:22:32] You and I are obviously having this call because of left brain technologies in the world. You know, people all over the world can sit and join our conversation, which is something we've never been able to do. But we have to remember in this dual world that we live in, that there's pluses and minuses to everything, right?
[00:22:48] Everything has two sides to it. And you know, so we moved into this left brain place and I think what's happening in the world now is that we're remembering the right brain. We're not forgetting the left brain, but we're bringing the right brain back in. And we have this opportunity as a society to be this whole brain society. The first time we're really using both. Adequately, we have the opportunity to do that. So, what does that look like when we're in our left brain, we're thinking, right? And so, when you're trying to figure something out or you're worried or you're fearful or your consciousness is in the future, it's somewhere. Not here. And vice versa. If you are trying to look at something, you know you're in depression or sadness or anger, you're living in the past. And so, when we're in the thinking mind where consciousness is either future or past, when we're in a right brain state, that's when we're in that state of being.
[00:23:41] We're just here in the present moment. Thoughts aren't going through our head. Thoughts aren't, you know, we are just present. You know, if we just sit here for a second, you know, you might feel a little breeze or catch the sunlight coming in on the back or listen to a dog breathing. You know, all those things are happening in the present moment.
[00:23:57] And why do I talk about this? Because. Greg Braden, if you've ever studied in his work, he says that the 20th century was the century of the brain. The 21st century is the century of the heart, and when we're in that right brain state, what happens is that we are now connected to. The wisdom of our body. And as we learn, you know, it's not that easy to stop thinking, right?
[00:24:17] It takes a lot of work. There's a lot of, muscle. But when we start really coming into the present, we start recognizing, especially in our heart, the things that light us up. We started recognizing, wow, that really made me feel good. Or that conversation with Luke, that was amazing. Like I really, I really enjoyed talking with Luke, like he's someone I would like to continue talking to, or vice versa, right.
[00:24:36] You might start noticing that you get this pit in your stomach every time you go to work or you talk to this person or whatever. And the positive stuff is generally easier to follow than the stuff that leaves the pits, it takes a little more work because we need to go deeper and say, okay, is there some belief in me that.
[00:24:54] You know, I'm not worthy or whatever that's causing that, you know, we need to, we really need to explore it. Or is it just that this scenario is, like you said, is this something I need to leave or is it something that just needs to be healed?
[00:25:05] Luke: That's interesting because the way I really appreciate you approach that through the perspective of some historical, you know, perspective that is brought in there.
[00:25:14] Certainly something I've joked about repeatedly is the fact that it took us, you know, 2,500 years to prove out what the masters knew a millennia ago. But now it's science. So now we can call it real. But what the, because of the way you described that and using the idea of the tracker, for instance, a great, great example is that when we are more in the present, when we are in the present moment or more in the present moment, our sensitivity increases.
[00:25:43] And now all of a sudden, because we're not just stuck here and ruminating through whatever's going on in our mind or overthinking, whatever, is, we're drawing in different information than we normally would assimilate, and we're connecting in a very, very different way so that we can sense into what's occurring.
[00:26:00] And as we do that more, and I'll share a little bit of my own kind of personal experience with this, is that sensitivity deepens. So what's the power of something like mindfulness? Well, doing body scans and those types of meditations make us more sensitive to initially just maybe certain points of tension or stress or ease that's within the body.
[00:26:22] And the more we stay with it, the more we realize, well, what's beneath that tension? What's beneath that stress? What's actually within that ease? And it keeps dropping us deeper and deeper and deeper. For those who've tuned in for a while you've heard my travels with nature over and over and over again, right.
[00:26:38] And, going on vision quest and all sorts of fun as well as crazy things I've done. And the more that I got out into natural settings, the more that I felt like was actually receiving some of the wisdom, some of the messages that were there, even beyond just the simple joy of feeling, the warmth of the sun, or feeling a warm breeze or the sense that are emerging as we hope, hopefully right the corner from springtime here in the Northeast, right in the Mid-Atlantic, and it increases, and then we start to pick up those deeper messages that seem maybe like they're coming from somewhere deeper or from somewhere else. We can get into that.
[00:27:21] Jennifer: There's actually a quote by, it's not a quote, but Greg Braden also in that same line of thought, of thinking of the heart is that, I don't have it off the top of my head, but there's a scientific journal, a peer revered journal that he likes to show this little excerpt from this study and it, and it says something, you know, they've discovered Neurons in our heart, like we actually have brain cells in our heart. And it says something along the lines of it really, it's starting to look like, or we think that the heart is connected to some field of information outside of itself that we can't totally explain, but. We just know what's out there.
[00:27:55] And that's, you know, that's what for me is so exciting. Like, yes, this is what the masters have been saying. But the way I like to see science, is our current understanding of the world. Given our current technology, it does not mean it's the end all or be all. It just means it's what we understand. So, if we knew everything, we wouldn't need scientists anymore, right?
[00:28:11] Like we wouldn't need to be studying other stuff.
[00:28:13] Luke: Exactly. For anybody who does want to go further on that, check out the HeartMath Institute, right? Because that's what they've been doing for the last 20, 30 years. And some of the work that they do around coherence and specifically social coherence, meaning connecting that field beyond yourself and into a group is getting into like the really beginnings of what you are describing.
[00:28:33] It shows that it's there. I bring this up because of, as we increase that sensitivity, I, where you were going and what you brought up is important for us to get into is we begin to feel what is something that is much more aligned, resonant, congruent for who we are? And what is it that is dissonant?
[00:28:54] What is it that feels like it is just no longer in alignment with us. And that to me is going back to our power. Right? And the truth of who it is we are, is that as we go through this world, this thing called life we feel like at times, at least I, from my own personal experience, I feel like at times I have bent myself to the world or to others because I've compromised what felt like truth, but for whatever reason, didn't want to hurt somebody's feelings. I felt intimidated, I felt fear. Whatever could be anywhere on the spectrum I didn't honor that and instead I compromised it to whatever I felt was appropriate as a response. There may be beautiful reasons for that, but nonetheless it leads me further and further away from that power, and instead usually towards some form of pain, at least some level of discomfort in me compromising that way.
[00:29:47] And I'm curious, you know, with your own experiences, how have you begun walking that path where you are more able to honor speaking up when there is that dissonance as well as saying, no, I'm going to really, this is the part that's congruent for me and I'm going to stay really, really true to it even though a lot of people or situations are going to try to pull me away.
[00:30:07] Jennifer: Yeah. Again, it goes to listening. I think that when we first start this work and we first really start listening, it's very easy to point fingers at people and say, you're doing that on purpose. You're trying to make me feel that way. You're trying to do this and having done very deep work, you know, I've studied rapid transformational therapy.
[00:30:24] It's a form of hypnotherapy where we go back, where we regress back to the root cause of why we're feeling, you know, why maybe we're afraid to speak up or something like that. You know, whatever you want to work on, that's what we go back and there's this story that I'd like to share. We worked in three, in groups of three when we were training.
[00:30:40] It was a therapist, the client, and then the observer. In this case, I was the observer. And there was this woman, the woman who was the client was regressing. She was having bruising all over her body and she was maybe in her sixties or seventies, you know, and she wanted to understand what the root cause of that was.
[00:30:57] And we go back, the therapist took her back to a scene from when she was 12 and she was in the hospital and you know, she was trying to figure out why she was in the hospital. And you could tell she was kind of trying to avoid the question. And then it started going into more things happening in the hospital, but all of a sudden, she just blurted out, my mother tried to kill me and I just had this moment of like, holy crap.
[00:31:22] I mean, you would never know this looking at this woman, you know what I mean? And it was like her subconscious had this chance of like freedom. You could tell she didn't want to say it, but it's like she, like her subconscious saw the light and was like, no, I'm getting out of here. I can't say trapped in your body anymore.
[00:31:34] And you know, for me it was just this serious moment of compassion that. Everybody has a story behind their life. Right. And we're not even talking about a, like a personality characteristic. Right. This was actually a physical thing happening in her body. And to me that just that moment really shifted how I saw the people outside of me and it wasn't overnight, you know, it's still something, it's still a muscle. You know, things still happen in my life that irk me. It's not like we're, this is not about perfection. This is about, this is about learning to navigate the journey. That things are still going to happen.
[00:32:09] People are still going to ruffle your feathers. But we have the opportunity to look within, within and say, how can I be a better human in showing up? How can I be more loving? How can I heal? Why is this wounding me? And the more we get to understand other people, the better we can be. It makes us feel better.
[00:32:27] I mean, everything is better. I mean, everybody wins when we try to be more understanding.
[00:32:31] Luke: Number one. I love that perspective of consistently coming back to the idea of how can I heal this because the way that affects me, but the way that affects my life, the way that it affects others.
[00:32:41] So it’s just consistently turning back within and how can I heal this? That's part of it. But where you were just going. The other part of this work that I have found immensely beneficial and has changed the, I'd say the level of peace that I have in life and in relationships is the more that I get to understand the way in which I work, right, meaning the ways that I have covered up my untruth, the way that I have given away elements of my power, the way that I have bent myself to others or to situations. The more I understand that, and the more I understand the experiences that I've gone through that have contributed to that, where I've taken on that belief and made it my own, has given me such beautiful insight into others, and it allows me, the more I understand.
[00:33:31] Well, I don't want to presume, I don't want to make assumptions as to, oh, well, if it's true for me, it must be for them. That's not what I mean. It's just more of this understanding of these are the ways that experiences shape us, that the ways that we're showing up in life are reflective of a million experiences before this moment in time, and the narrative that we have assigned to those particular experiences.
[00:33:53] And if that's true for me then it's true for the other 7 billion people that are walking around on this planet right now. And if I want, if I would like people to cut me a little slack, then you know, I got to honor that. I got to cut them some slack as well. Cause they have no idea what it is that they've been through in their lives.
[00:34:09] And so it's just, I don't know. There's something about it that when I come at life that way with, with kind of that realization you were sharing, it creates some. Right. It creates some space for us to relate to and work with life differently. It creates some space for two or three or four of us to, to gather and to come to a place of holding space and being understanding of each other as opposed to, you need to go this way, you need to do this, you need to fix that.
[00:34:35] Jennifer: Well, it's also the understanding, I think that we're all on this spiritual journey of awakening, and there's an amazing book. I don't know if you've ever read Power versus Force. By Dr. David Hawkins. What that book describes is kind of how your perception changes, what that looks like, what the journey to enlightenment or salvation, or whatever you want to call it is, and how other people in there it's a perception. They truthfully believe that the way that they're showing up is the right way. You know, that's what they know. That's all they know. And so, we need to honor everybody on their own journey. And you know, Mother Teresa has a quote that says, you know, if everyone sweeps their own doorstep, the whole world would be clean.
[00:35:16] And that's what she means, is that, when we feel unloving, we look inside and say, why am I being unloving right now? Or why am I feeling hatred or anger, or whatever it is, as opposed to pointing fingers and saying, why are you, and it's always a balance. It's a dance, it's a middle way, right?
[00:35:32] Because there are always times that boundaries need to be set, right? Like we need to do the healing work, but people still might actually be doing things that are not appropriate and not, you know, valid for you. And you have to lovingly set boundaries and say, I'm sorry, but you may not, you know, I love you, but you may not treat me that way.
[00:35:49] And it's just a dance, it's always, it's trying some things out and, and maybe it doesn't work or it does work. And just keep recognizing that everything's a choice and that it's learning to navigate the journey. It's not about the destination. There is no destination. There's never a destination.
[00:36:05] Luke: I'm passionate about this topic. All these types of conversations relating to, what we're talking about right now today on this podcast is this recognition. And I know I'm saying this because I know this was part of your, your Oxford talk as well, is that there is so much hurt and pain that we are walking around with any given time, and we are projecting that out onto the world.
[00:36:27] But if we. To actually change that collective, we don't change the collective by working on the collective. We change the collective by working on ourselves, right? So that we show up differently so that we let different information in, we let different experiences in, and then we begin to shine that light, that consciousness, that awareness back out.
[00:36:44] But it's not by trying to fix the other. It’s by trying to heal ourselves. By trying to create that space within us.
[00:36:51] Jennifer: And then after we create the space, then we take it to our organizations. Or our schools or our companies. And recognize that when we're trying to get somebody to follow us or believe us, you know, I never tell a client, this is what you have to believe.
[00:37:04] I offer it to them and say, I believe I've been on this massive quest for truth with a capital T and, and I study multiple spiritual traditions and different things and I find the commonalities, but that still doesn't have to be your truth. Right. And we can still love each other and sit at the same table and believe in completely different things.
[00:37:21] Once you get your power, then it's about empowering other people to get their power too.
[00:37:26] Luke: Makes perfect sense. Because as I used to teach way back when with IPEC with Coach Training Institute, that that idea of empowerment is not that you give someone power, you cannot give them power. But you can help them remember they already have. And that's what you're describing. That when we've done that more and more of that healing work, where we are creating more and more of that space, more and more of that power, that truth, that exudes from who we are, it's not even a matter of bringing it to our organizations.
[00:37:53] We can't not bring it to our organizations because it's who we are. But it also means that when we are trying to help facilitate changes among individuals and teams and companies, organizations, of any kind, schools, whatever, is that we now recognize that we can hold space, we can make invitations, we can facilitate, we can support, we can ask questions.
[00:38:15] So that what we're remembering at that moment is that we're trying to help another person remember what is truth for them, so they can begin to see through their illusions. They can begin to see through their hurts and their pains, and we invite them into that space and we can support them and hold that space for them so they can do that work cause that's the only way they will ever really truly connect to what is the truth and the gifts and the power that they have to carry. And instead, we don't see a lot of that. Instead, we see a lot of, you need to do it my way. You need to believe this. You need to believe that. And for all of us, we have to create space for that too.
[00:38:54] Yeah, it's difficult. Yeah, right. When you see people who very much vehemently disagree with your view of the world and come at things, again, not to say there aren't boundaries. Not to say there aren't things that we do need to argue about, and it's okay to get into those debates. But at the same time, we have to remember the reason why they believe so differently than us is because of everything they've ever been through in their life.
[00:39:18] That's their perspective. It still has to be taken at, not that you agree with it, not that you're going to accept and say, okay, you can just do that. But it's still to understand who they are and where it is they've come from. And that's part of us stepping into our own power, is actually being, to be able to almost be big enough, so to speak, to hold that space and not be threatened by it.
[00:39:38] Jennifer: Right, and I think I just had this conversation maybe yesterday that thinking about the different people in the world and the type of people that I tend to work with is those that are just starting to wake up and don't really understand the journey, don't understand what healing is, and are looking for somebody.
[00:39:52] And I always say, I'm here to walk alongside you. I'm not doing it for you. You still have to do the work. But I'm on the journey. I know the tool. I have lots of tools, I have lots of, you know, wisdom I can impart to you, but if you don't take it and you don't use it. But as far as the people that haven't quite woken up yet, right?
[00:40:08] It's not our job to wake them up. I don't think anybody outside of you can wake you up. I think we all need to go through some form of, I mean, you look into nature and the chick has to pop out of the egg and you know, the seed has to come out of the shell and break through the dirt. Like we all have to go through our own awakening.
[00:40:26] And so it's our job to be there. Lovingly waiting for everybody that's starting to wake up and, and, and introduce them into our culture and our world and the people that aren't awake yet, it's still our job to send them love and to keep praying for them and hoping for them and, and when they do things that are just despicable for us.
[00:40:42] You know, when we throw anger back at them, we're just doing the same things that they, they're doing out in the world, that we're blaming them for being, you know, Matt's taking radical responsibility that if I'm going to teach people how to connect to their higher self, which is just love, right? Then I have to see bad things in the world, and it's not forcing love on it. It's literally like always seeing that and, and, and finding them a place of compassion and saying, gosh, like what is going on in your life that you feel like that is appropriate? And you don't have to necessarily say it to them, but that's the energy that I hold, when I see those things and that's how I help my clients get through some of these traumas, you know, major things that people have gone through.
[00:41:21] And it's, it's understanding that it was never about you in the first place. Right? That they are so far out of their power and when we don't have our own power, you know I said it in the talk, we look to take it from other people. We're trying to steal it outside of us bcause we don't know how to get it inside of us.
[00:41:36] And so it was never about you.
[00:41:38] Luke: It's been said before on the show and I think it was Father Richard that said at first was: hurt people. hurt people. But again, the more that we remember that it is, to create space, right? It's to create space from the event. The experience that that may have occurred, that may have been horrible, may have been tragic, may have been horrendously traumatic, and at the same time recognizing that if we can create a little bit of space, we can begin to work on where we are and how we move forward, and how we change and, and do our healing so that we can move forward so that this does not become us.
[00:42:11] And that's something that usually is not necessarily occurring. And you mentioned radical responsibility. So, when we talk about as we have begun to shift more into our power and our truth, how is it that we interact with the world? How is it that we continue to hold that space of love, but we are also not just totally passive in what's going on?
[00:42:29] And you described this, and I want to kind of refer back to it, A radical responsibility is for who we are, what we allow in as truth, and how we show up in the world. And I think that's a kind of a beautiful statement of really what it means. Because when we take that type of responsibility, now we are beginning to allow to interact with the world from a core place of who we are.
[00:42:52] And when we begin to interact, that begins to, it's the pebble in the pond. It begins to create the ripple effect. We have no idea when it's going to take hold. We don't know how it's going to come back to us, but I guarantee you it's going to start creating that ripple. And so, I was hoping you could speak a little bit more of, you know, to this, this concept of radical responsibility.
[00:43:10] How's it playing out for you now? Like if we get away from just the kind of the fun words and concepts and everything else of all this. What does it look like for you to have or take radical responsibility in your life?
[00:43:22] Jennifer: Lots of things. In that talk, I'll just quickly go over, I talk about the triangle with the triangle of disempowerment.
[00:43:28] The disempowerment. which, we all tend to take on either the victim, the rescuer, or the perpetrator, and, we all sort of have a favorite that we like to do. But the truth is we play them all. And so we have to recognize taking radical responsibility as when you're playing the victim, recognize that yes, this person is trying to, you know, is trying to take me down, but because I have control of my inner world, I am not going to let them.
[00:43:54] But it's also recognizing that when I'm trying to take somebody else down, right, when I'm trying to take somebody else's power, that we all do that too and recognize and as soon as you snap out of it, right? As soon as we become conscious, you know, kids are like the greatest spiritual teachers there are.
[00:44:07] Right? And so, you know, there's moments that I snap and I, however long after, if it's 10 seconds or two days, and I recognize is that wow I said something that I'm really not proud of, and if I could go back and do it, and I go to my kids and I say, Hey guys, gosh, I'm, I really shouldn't have said that. That was really responsible of and, and I apologize for how that made you feel and let's you know, let's start over.
[00:44:28] Does it go perfectly every time? No, but. It's understanding that we make mistakes. It's everything, right? That, that we have the power not to let stuff in. And we also, as we're letting some stuff, you know, as we're projecting out, taking the responsibility for what we're projecting out, or if we're, like I said, trying to force somebody into our belief system or our kids or whatever it is, you know, thinking we know better for other people.
[00:44:51] And that's what true leaders are helping people find themselves. It's not about an ego. It's not about being the best leader or anything. It's just about honestly helping people and I agree with you. I don't love the word empowerment because a lot of people see it as like screw you.
[00:45:08] Like this is who I am, and I don't care what it means to you because, when we're projecting that kind of energy out, it doesn't feel good. We have to pay attention. And we're constantly paying attention to how to just things feel and so ultimately when we show up and we start becoming more loving and when we heal our stuff, like we feel good all the time.
[00:45:26] So radical responsibility means that no matter what's happening around me, Our goal is to become the eye of the hurricane, right? That we are solid, that we are grounded, that it is calm in our world, even though all of these things are happening around us, because we're never going to stop the stuff happening around us.
[00:45:46] The only thing that we ever truly have control over is what's going on in that inner world of ours.
[00:45:51] Luke: You bring up the, the disempowerment triangle. I actually spoke about it just a couple episodes ago. Anybody's interested, it was the episode with David Emerald Waldorf. But what you brought up, which is what I wanted to come back to, is we need to, part of the radical, radical responsibility is us recognizing how are we perpetuating the circumstance that we are in that we don't want to be a part of, that we don't like. Right. And so, you described the victim and the perpetrator, and that other role is the rescuer. And that rescuer, even though it feels like, oh, I'm going to help, I'm here in service. Right. What you're actually doing is you're continuing to lock in the role of victim and perpetrator. Right? You are part of actually keeping that whole triangle going. You're part of that system. Now let me extrapolate out of that. Part of that radical responsibility that I'm consistently now taking a look at in my life is I look at what are some of the values, for instance, that I have in terms of caring for this earth.
[00:46:50] I have become very deeply connected to nature, and I'm much more sensitive than I ever was to environmental issues and things like that. And at the same time, I've got to take a look at it. It's not just do I change the car that I buy, do I change how I get my electricity? It's those types of things I can look at.
[00:47:06] But I also need to understand, well, where does my water come from? Where does my garbage go? Where do and start? Like when I buy certain products., where am I buying them from? Who am I buying them from? How much gasoline is needed to transport that to be able to, to get a shelf, et cetera. So it's not to say you've got to change everything, it's to simply be aware of how are you actually interacting with a system, a paradigm that is still perpetuating things that you don't believe in.
[00:47:35] But maybe we do it out of convenience. Maybe we do it out of just not knowing, right. Out of ignorance. Yeah. And. We've got to look at all the things in our lives. We've got to look at that in our relationships. We look at it in our health, we look at it in our careers of how are we perpetuating, how are we playing into the game?
[00:47:51] That we are not enjoying anymore. How are we allowing that to continue through our choices? Coming back to where we were, we were talking before, which is to recognize, okay, am I going to choose to continue to be part of that system, that process, those choices that sell us these products, that sell us these ads on social media, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:48:13] Or am I going to start to make different choices? Begin to unplug me from those situations and from those systems. And if that's the case and enough, and we are doing that and we have, you know, just our behavior, what people can see in us begins to influence others. We don't have to preach it to them, we don't have to teach it to them.
[00:48:30] They see us. They can feel that and maybe they'll start making more choices that are in alignment with them. They no longer perpetuate certain systems that they don't believe in, in certain circumstances they don't believe in. So, to me that's like when we take radical responsibility, it all of a sudden starts to cascade and it isn’t. This is not a, like, this is not a, you know, it sounds good. Oh, I'm taking responsibility for myself. It's like when you look at all the decisions that you make in your life, all the information that you allow in, and we're, I'm just using like social media, news, whatever, as, as kind of an example, because that's obvious information that's being bombarded at us all the time.
[00:49:06] But it's also the information of, what do your friends talk to you about? What do your colleagues talk to you about? So, it's all the information, all these inputs that come in and it's being aware of, wow, you know what? I don't pay attention to the fact that one of my closest friends, they're really pessimistic.
[00:49:23] And I love them dearly. But I realized that like those, some of those views are starting to rub off on me. I've got to find a way of interacting differently or creating different space, setting boundaries, because it's starting to affect me. So, it's starting to look at all of those different areas and to me, and I'd love to, you know, to hear you expand upon us further, but how I begin to recognize those things is when I become aware of something that no longer is fitting or is having an adverse effect on me, I notice that in my gut. And I mean, I can feel the knot that goes there and once I become aware of it, it doesn't go away until I address it. Like anytime this,
[00:50:05] Jennifer: and that's the wisdom of the body again, that we're talking about.
[00:50:08] Luke: It keeps coming back. It's like, oh, I didn't address that. I'm still doing it. Right. That's where us getting, again, coming back to the idea of listening with him becomes so important because it's there.
[00:50:19] Jennifer: Yeah. And I think the more that you, you know, the beginning, it's a lot of the inner work and the healing and you know, we talk about the heart, but so many of us have put so many metaphorical, energetic, actual cages, we have totally closed down our heart. And so, there's a lot of work there to, to open that back up to life because joy and fulfillment all come from being open-hearted. But back to what you were saying, I think the deeper you get and the more, the more that you spend life and the present moment as opposed into the thinking mind, the more of the wisdom and the pits and things like that, you get and, and that's where.
[00:50:50] Again, boundaries. And, and it took me a long time to understand boundaries and I still think it's something that will continually be tested and there's an amazing book Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud. You know, he actually uses the Bible sort of as a tool saying like, it's actually a relationship tool.
[00:51:06] Like it's teaching you that, when we don't set boundaries, we're enabling behavior and we're not giving the other human an opportunity to wake up because it's through relationships. that we have our awakenings, that's how we learn the most about ourselves. And so, we all want to be a nice person, and we want to be, you know, so much of being, spirituality and religion has always been about being a good person.
[00:51:28] Right? Well, what he teaches you and it's kind of in conjunction with what they teach and what he teaches in power versus force is that if you are giving, but you're angry inside and you're, feeling resentful and you're feeling like they didn't acknowledge you.
[00:51:44] You're not really giving just because you're doing something in the physical world that that person needs. But if the energetic worlds, it's all, all over the place and it's not a positive, loving place that is not serving anybody. And that's where, you know, power versus force really gets into our energy and how just our being you and I sitting here, and even if we weren't saying any words, but if we were somehow connecting and just sending out, you know, light like that, that'll affect people.
[00:52:12] Luke: So let me ask you this then to bring us around full circle on the journey we've been taking here. Now that you've been doing this work, now that you have stepped more and more into that place of power within you shedding more and more of the layers, the pain, and being able to listen more deeply within, how's your life different?
[00:52:31] Jennifer: I was lost. I thought I knew what I wanted out of life before and. I thought I was doing all the right things, but, I was lost and, you know, there's still a lot of things going on in my life. There are still big things to navigate through, but I feel, I just feel the sense of inner peace. You know, when everyone’s in bed and it's just me and I'm lying there and I just, I feel my heart all the time and it's, I feel connected to life and to people and to my mission and what I came here to do, and
[00:53:06] I know with how to shadow of a doubt that I am on the correct path and that that's all it matters is that being in alignment for me is like we all have this North star. And when we're feeling those pits in our stomach, it's like, you know, if you can't see me I'm taking my hand. You know, I have my hand sort of in a prayer position, and, the one hand's going off, and the more off we are from our North star, the more inner resistance we're going to feel.
[00:53:28] And so the more that you come into alignment with your soul and what your purpose is, and what your higher self wants from you. The more of all of those above the line emotions, you feel the peace, the joy, the happiness, the fulfillment, the, I don't know what tomorrow's going to bring. I don't set goals the way that all the business people do.
[00:53:46] You know, I'm, we're much more open to life and, and knowing that I am on the right path, and this is getting a little bit more spiritual, but that when we do that, it’s like life happens for us. Everything around you, all of the forces, whatever you want to call it, is like cheering you on and saying, yes, we've got your back and we're going to, and you start seeing signs of it in your life and synchronicities and all sorts of amazing things happen.
[00:54:08] and I just know now. I mean, it's that deep knowing that this is exactly the path that I am supposed to be on.
[00:54:17] Luke: Absolutely love that Jennifer, and you, you remind me of, of a friend, former colleague of mine, as she used to say, is that, you know, we've got to end up leaving room for the magic in life.
[00:54:27] And when we create the type of space through all of these processes, everything we've shared today, everything you just shared, we're leaving room for that magic so that life can just absolutely delight us with what's possible. And to do so in a manner that feels deeply aligned, deeply congruent with who we are.
[00:54:46] I want to thank you for being here. I want to thank you, thank you for, for going on this walk and for all that you had to share with everybody. Just a reminder to everybody check into the show notes for the variety of links to be able to connect with Jen, to see her Oxford talk and all the things.
[00:55:00] Jennifer, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation.
[00:55:21] To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to on this walk.com and click on community in the upper right-hand corner. It's free to join until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.