048 - A Path to Healing Trauma and Personal Freedom with Jennifer Wallace

In the realm of human existence, one difficult truth continues to show itself: trauma, a seemingly relentless force, can grip our very souls and leave an indelible imprint on our physical form. It weaves its tendrils through our thoughts, actions, decisions and our relationships. 

This week On This Walk, my walking partner is Jennifer Wallace. We dive deep into the world of trauma and its impact on our bodies and minds. We also explore the concept of post-traumatic growth and the importance of working with the nervous system to release trauma and facilitate healing.

Jennifer shares her personal journey of overcoming a kidnapping and a rare form of breast cancer and how healing her nervous system has been crucial in finding safety, joy, and self-expression. This episode helps listeners break free from the chains of trauma and rediscover their unique path to true freedom.

In This Episode

  • (00:29) The concept of trauma and how it affects the body and mind, regardless of its intensity.

  • (06:46) Jennifer's journey: Trauma, breast cancer, and healing

  • (09:58) The impact of trauma on the nervous system

  • (20:00) Jennifer’s belief that trauma, emotions, and memories are stored in the water in our bodies.

  • (23:39) Jennifer's journey of finding healing through neuro-somatic approaches

  • (29:38) How trauma healing allows for the return of joy and aliveness

  • (31:30) How men tend to dissociate from their feelings and emotional experiences

  • (39:05) The impact of repressed emotions and anger as a coping mechanism

  • (40:22) The importance of expressing anger and rage

  • [43:45] Creating safe spaces for emotional expression and regulation

  • [48:20] The transformative potential of anger and how it can be used as a tool for communication and self-awareness.

  • [51:04] Initial steps to regulate the nervous system

  • [53:45] The transformative power of somatic and nervous system work

  • [57:05] The burden of complex trauma

Notable Quote

  • “When people begin these journeys, there can often be these thoughts of like, there's something wrong with me. I'm the bad one. Like that's what complex drama teaches us. Like it's me, I'm the one who needs to change, and that's not true. Whoever's listening like that is not true. You are not broken. You are buried under complex trauma. You are buried under stories and emotions that just do not serve you anymore. And I think a lot of times on this journey, it is about the uncloaking of the soul. It is about the you that is you, to come forward and be fully self-expressed, to feel safe in your body to be whatever it is that you wanna experience, but you're just buried and it doesn't have to stay like that.” - Jennifer

Our Guest

Jennifer Wallace is an expert in neuro-somatic intelligence coaching for promoting brain-based wellness and is also a knowledgeable psychedelic integration coach with a trauma-informed approach. Through her podcast, Trauma Rewired, she aims to emphasize the idea that by establishing a secure nervous system, it is entirely feasible to achieve healing, and behavioral transformation, and ultimately create the life one desires.

Resources & Links

On This Walk

Jennifer Wallace

Mentioned

  • [00:00:00] Luke: You're listening to on this Walk, the show that helps men rediscover their unique path to true freedom. My name is Luke Iorio. I spent the last two decades in the human potential industry helping teaching, coaching thousands of people to create a more fulfilling, deeply aligned life. And it's now my mission to reawaken and reconnect men to the joy, purpose, and peace that will help you become who you aspire to be for yourself, your loved ones, and those you lead.

    [00:00:28] Today. Today we're diving into the topic of trauma. Trauma is not what we've experienced, but it's our relationship to what we've experienced, and this subtle distinction highlights that we do have the capacity to alter how our experiences have. Affected or impacted us. It also underpins a subtle point as to what creates post-traumatic stress and what creates post-traumatic growth.

    [00:00:54] Whether we think of it this way or not, most of us experience some form of trauma in our lives, and as more recent research is highlighting, such as what's being highlighted in the very recently published book, unbroken, how the Trauma Response is never wrong is that regardless of whether we think about an experience as big or intense or small and minor, The body still reacts to whatever it perceives as trauma.

    [00:01:18] It's not big trauma or little trauma. It's just simply trauma as experienced by the body. Well, then what's in the way? Meaning where and how can we focus our efforts to release any trauma, pains, hurt, and other energy that has become stuck in the body and keep showing up unconsciously in our lives through our protection defense and coping mechanisms.

    [00:01:40] How do we begin to move this to release this? But what if I told you that the body has an operating system and no, it's not your brain. It's through this operating system that we can access what we need to release and truly begin to heal all that we are. This operating system also shows us just how much everything is connected, and while that means trauma of all intensities can have a potentially widespread impact, It also means that we can heal across the whole of our system, meaning focusing on one area that is surfaced can have a positive healing impact on a whole range of areas.

    [00:02:16] None of this is about simply getting back to neutral, but about getting back to the joy of full aliveness to thriving across all areas of our lives. So how do we do this? What's the operating system and how do we take back control

    [00:02:30] Jennifer: of it? As humans, we are here to experience the full spectrum of emotion.

    [00:02:35] When you repress your rage and your grief and your anger, are you also repressing your joy, your connection, your vitality, the pleasure.

    [00:02:44] Luke: So for today, we welcome Jennifer Wallace. Jennifer has overcome a kidnapping. It was the Waypoint for sex trafficking. She's overcome a very grim, rare form of breast cancer diagnosis.

    [00:02:57] And now, Jennifer is the host of the Trauma Rewired podcast. She's trained in neuro somatic healing, and we're gonna use all of this knowledge and this unbelievable background and experience today to discuss how she overcame all of it and got back to a point of actually thriving in her life. We're gonna be diving into that in just a second.

    [00:03:18] First, what I wanted to tell you also though, was about the new Alignment Process workbook that I am making available. Previously, this used to only be available to my active clients, but given the nature of this podcast, this community's desire to come back into alignment with what matters most to you and what matters most within you.

    [00:03:36] I wanted to open up access, and so stay tuned at the end of this episode and learn how to get the Alignment Process workbook for free. But now, Let's dive in with Jennifer Wallace and Rewiring Trauma. Hi there, Jennifer. I wanna thank you for being here on this walk. It's so good to see you today.

    [00:03:54] Jennifer: Thank you so much for having me today, Luke.

    [00:03:56] I'm really excited to connect with you and with our listeners.

    [00:03:59] Luke: Excellent. You know, today, uh, as I, I started to share a little bit in the intro, you know, you host the Trauma Rewired podcast. You support clients through all of this, you know, neuros, somatic practices and healing work. Just some really wonderful things, and we're gonna get to that throughout the, kind of the course of the, the show and the, the big questions that we have.

    [00:04:17] But I was hoping you could give everyone a little bit of the backstory, you know, meaning what were some of maybe the defining experiences. That you've had on your journey that have led you to the work that you're doing today, uh, because you've had, as I know you've had a pretty dramatic story through some of this, uh, but I'd love for the listeners to get a sense of why you're doing what you're doing today and how'd you get there?

    [00:04:40] Jennifer: Well, you did mention that I do have. Some, uh, pretty dramatic stories. I think all of us experience trauma in our bodies and we all have stories that we grow from and heal from and that we're here to learn from, and I have definitely got my fair share of dramatic stories and I really consider them blessings.

    [00:05:00] I have tried all the modalities of healing with each precipice that I've come to. It calls you to something a little bit more if you answer that call right? In my own experience, I'll just speak to, it's like I had to go through a lot of modalities to get me to a certain place, and then I finally started understanding and working with my nervous system and that.

    [00:05:21] Has led me to be really embodied and take radical responsibility for the blessings and the

    [00:05:28] Luke: sufferings. It's amazing. I like the way you describe if you choose to answer that call, and then some of those. Evolving iterations of the journey that we go through until we connect with what might be the path that serves us most.

    [00:05:42] And you know, today that is your work specifically inside of using the approaches to working with the nervous system to heal trauma inside of body, inside of our systems. It's funny because I think from my own experience, I also. Look back. Now that I know what is the kind of the tried and true practices that have been most helpful to me, I look back and I can actually look at some of the other modalities that I pursued and see like the little pieces I was picking up along the way that was leading me to where I am.

    [00:06:11] And so I relate to that. Very, very much so. If you could speak a little bit about some of your experiences of what you've been through in your life, and as I was preparing for this, I'd heard another conversation that you were having around your breast cancer diagnosis. And then the beginning of the chemotherapy process, the treatment process that you went through, and just the awareness you had to the level of stress that was going on in your body.

    [00:06:37] And I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about that time and then what you started to connect to. Cause it seemed like that was also the moments where you ended up having some pretty extraordinary healing. And it seems like it's because of some of the things you were figuring out for yourself at that time.

    [00:06:50] Jennifer: Yeah. Everything is connected. Right. And so I have an ACE score of four that's adverse childhood experience of four, and then at 32, I was kidnapped while I was traveling through Turkey and everything worked out fine. It's a great story. I did a really good job in that, but five years later I was diagnosed with stage three, HER two positive breast cancer.

    [00:07:15] And I say all of these are connected because as I reflect now being. I was 37 at the time. I'm 46 now. And so, you know, cancer was really the portal to my awakening and I answered that call to that because her two positive, HER two is a protein gene that we carry in our hearts, and mine went mutant out of a toxic environment.

    [00:07:39] I know now that that toxic environment was stress. The stress of the ACE score of four that I'd been living with. I mean, I do have complex trauma, developmental trauma. I was in oscillating states of the four five F. Trauma responses, right? Fight, flight, freeze, fawn flop. I was really living my life in highly activated states.

    [00:08:00] A lot of hypervigilance that I didn't understand. I was really self-medicating for a long time with alcohol, with cannabis, with bad relationships, with really ways of like really disembodied, right? I was very dissociated for a really long time in my life. And then I got kidnapped, so then that added to already like, that's a P T S D on top of complex.

    [00:08:22] P T S D. So it's just like getting stacked up and it seems like, of course I would get sick. Eventually you just would. And thank God I have the support that I do around me from my family and my friends and my community. And because of the experience in Turkey of being kidnapped, I had experienced divine intervention.

    [00:08:41] And so when it came to healing, Breast cancer and putting the time and energy into what I really believe is that we are in self-healing machines like we know intuitively. We are here with the innate capacity of divine intelligence and wisdom and knowledge, and. I really leaned into that. I leaned into those connections, into the love, and I healed in the top 40th percentile, and I was given a death sentence had I not done treatment.

    [00:09:08] He was like, you won't make it. It was October, and he said, you won't make it to January if you don't do this.

    [00:09:15] Luke: Wow. The piece I wanna pull out a little bit is how, like you said, everything is connected in this regard, and what I would like us to drill down a little bit into is how being in that chronic state.

    [00:09:30] Hyper vigilance, chronic levels of stress, the way in which we're, we get dysregulated and overstimulated within our nervous systems. If you could speak to the way in which that actually impacts us physically in terms of like our immune system and what it opens us up to, because not everybody has that, that full understanding, right?

    [00:09:50] Of exactly how connected this stuff all is. And I know for me it was a very eyeopening part of my own journey as I started to get into this material.

    [00:09:58] Jennifer: You are your brain. You are your brain, your thoughts, your emotions, your feelings, your beliefs, all of that lives in your nervous system. We have an operating system that's our brains and nervous systems, and.

    [00:10:12] They're always communicating with each other, and trauma is something that we just kind of experience, right? It's not what happens to us. It's really the way that it continues to live in the body. How it presents in your life, how it drives, like, let's think about my ACE score of four. There. I was like moving through my life, like I'm hiding.

    [00:10:34] I'm playing small. I have to show up to please these people. Like all of those beliefs of I'm unlovable, I. That comes from my nervous system. That comes from the way that I was shaped by the world I was experiencing when I was a really young girl. Right? When I was a baby. When I was a child. And so it's really important to heal our nervous systems because they are our operating systems.

    [00:10:57] I mean, if you think those of you out there who are operating within iPhone, how many iPhones have you had since the inception of iPhone? So many, right? I know I've probably had seven or eight phones, but how many times over these past 46 years was I upgrading my operating system? Was I carving out those limiting beliefs of I'm not worthy?

    [00:11:14] Visibility isn't safe. I mean, visibility got real unsafe after I was kidnapped. Then I actually have to come back into the world. Like, no, that was very, very scary. And so when we have dysregulation and there's all sorts of different things that would affect our nervous systems, our lifestyle affects our nervous systems.

    [00:11:33] Medications that we take affect it. Old injuries affect our nervous system. That held trauma and emotion in the body affects our nervous system. And over time it's just creating these little injuries. That are never healed. These little patterns that never get healed, and these little patterns start to affect your vision.

    [00:11:54] Your vestibular system, your proprioceptive system, all of the ways that your brain relies on information to feel safe for you to have full self-expression and boundaries and use your voice, all of that gets buried when the nervous systems under threat and when it can't take in information clearly.

    [00:12:12] Right? So all of the trauma starts to, let's say, affect my left eye. Like I had a wandering left eye that was a deficit in my nervous system over just compounded little, little cuts, right? So now I can train my left eye doesn't threaten my nervous system as much anymore, right? So training and working with your nervous system is like providing the the system with safety.

    [00:12:39] All the time. All the time. And as I can increase the safety, I'm lowering the threat and I'm allowing for that lowering of stress, the ability to be present in my body, to be embodied, to show up and record here with you. It takes regulation. I've got my tool right here, like I'm sitting here, I'm doing some breathing stuff like I'm regulating so that I can show up.

    [00:13:04] You know, and not just regulate your audience too, because even though we're separated, we're connected, it's

    [00:13:09] Luke: amazing how much we end up carrying around in our bodies, how much, all sorts of different experiences, including trauma, that our nervous systems will maintain. And as you described, when you've been through any number of different experiences within your life, you've referenced the ace.

    [00:13:26] Scores, which is the, again, the adverse, uh, childhood experiences. There is so much correlation there with how that changes the way that we perceive and operate in the world. It puts us at that state. You used that phrase, hypervigilance before, and we keep compounding all of these different experiences and so would we stay on high alert And our bodies are constantly like, what's gonna happen next?

    [00:13:51] I'm not safe. Where's this, where's that? And now we go from, Perceiving things that might be of physical danger, and now we're perceiving them emotionally. We're perceiving them mentally, and so we're just continuing to stack all these different ways of staying on high alert, and our body then never gets that chance.

    [00:14:09] To go into its restorative mode. It never gets that chance to go into that deeper piece, that deeper restoration that we need. That also then gives us access to all of these other wonderful parts of who it is that we are. I think about what you're describing of some of the ACE experiences, the childhood experiences that you went through, and then to have such a traumatic experience where you were kidnapped.

    [00:14:31] If you could speak a little bit to that. To go through something as traumatic, dramatic, intense as what you have gone through. I would love for you to share some of that because I want people to recognize that when you then go into this work of unwinding what's been bound up in the nervous system, you can not only heal.

    [00:14:52] But you can actually open yourself up to even greater possibilities. It's not just about getting back to neutral again. Yeah.

    [00:14:57] Jennifer: I'm excited to share that part actually, but I wanna speak to something that you just said because you just used the word perceived several times, and that is such a key word when we are talking about our brain and the way that it's receiving information.

    [00:15:10] Because whether the threat is perceived or real, the body is being alarmed. The body is gonna get alarmed and it's gonna start enacting the fight, the flight, the perfectionism, the fawn, whatever it is that is uniquely wired for you in a really carved pathway, that perceived threat is gonna trigger and illicit the same responses in the nervous system as like the person actually coming at you.

    [00:15:36] So it's, it's fascinating. I just, I love the brain so much. When I was taken in Turkey, it was a really, Interesting experience to be a part of because there were so many times during that experience that I was like so present and just ticking through a list of how was I gonna get out of this house? How was I gonna get out of this situation?

    [00:15:59] Because we all know John Walsh and Oprah told us, don't go to the second location. We learned that in the eighties as latchkey kids, like you do not go to the second location. And thank God I had those kind of like street level smarts around me to kind of work through the situation. And really that was a situation too, like there was a moment during that.

    [00:16:23] Experience where I really thought I was gonna die. I mean, he had a nine inch carving knife over me holding it like psycho. And I literally said to myself, well, this is it. I mean, I had stabbed him twice with a pair of scissors at this point, so he's really pissed. And I said to myself, and we were just face to face and I said, well, this is it.

    [00:16:47] You're gonna die. You, you tried. But it didn't work. And then like it was nothing, no time. And then I could feel this force that I cannot describe as anything other than divine. And then the next thought that went through me was, no, you're not. And I knew that. I knew I wasn't going to die in that moment.

    [00:17:09] And then it just started to unfold that I got to leave the house. But on the backend of that, you know, I returned, I was very scared and I already am someone who lives with a fight response that gets triggered. Like that's my well-worn pathway is, is anger. And of course, in this scenario that really worked out for me.

    [00:17:27] I got to play out my fight response. It kind of worked, which is a little bit of re-patterning, but on the backend that hypervigilance the reading of the room, the being scared, the self-medicating, the hiding. It was very hard to recover from and the subconscious beliefs that come up around being afraid to be visible and use my voice and be seen, like all of that just got super compounded.

    [00:17:52] I was scared to walk around my neighborhood. I have to have this like high tech alarm system that made me feel safe, and really when I started healing my nervous system, like I am the safe container. I am the safe container that moves through the world. And now when something happens and I might have, you know, be in the grocery store at the gas station and feel those eyes on me, that doesn't go into my well of dysregulation.

    [00:18:18] Like I know how to work with that emotional release immediately so that that presence, that body boundary violation doesn't trigger the real. Extreme body boundary violations that I've already had

    [00:18:29] Luke: to live with. If you could then go to the way in which our. Bodies will actually store the trauma that we've been through.

    [00:18:39] Because as you sort of alluded to before, uh, as you were talking about your diagnosis before your healing with breast cancer, you had alluded to this time of kidnapping and the, the extreme trauma that you went through and what your body goes through in an experience like that and the aftermath of something like that.

    [00:18:56] And I think it's important for people to understand how much we do continue to walk around with. Until we can find the release, the healing, that actually begins to move it outside of our system. If you could speak a little bit to the way in which our bodies actually will hold onto trauma until we find a way of addressing it.

    [00:19:15] So

    [00:19:16] Jennifer: our operating system, our nervous systems, our bodies, that, that really do help control or do control so much of our life experiences, whether we're able to connect and stay present and then back to the stories that we've already been and lived through. Our bodies have this highly intellectual memory system that holds onto trauma for until it doesn't.

    [00:19:36] Basically right for years and decades and we focus so much on the mind and healing and, and we do sometimes have really high cognitive awareness as to like, you know what? I can look around here at this wedding and see that I'm safe. I get it. I can look around like I'm safe. I'm with people that love me, but my body is having a different experience.

    [00:19:57] And our bodies are always vibing at the present moment. It is always. Talking to us and sensations and words. And if we're dissociated, if we're disconnected from those sensations, we're not gonna be able to hear why is the body responding like this? Like why am I engaged in this conversation and I'm starting to feel all this activation in my nervous system?

    [00:20:19] It's cuz the body is holding onto that memory. And for me, I really believe that the trauma, the emotions, the memory is stored in the water in our bodies. I really believe that like water holds memory. We know that we've seen the snowflake. If you haven't seen the Snowflake experiments, please go look at that.

    [00:20:38] It's fascinating the way that you can talk to water. And when I think about the belief systems of fear and unworthiness and trust and safety, and I think about how those thoughts curate the water in our bodies. And then like when we talk about emotions, when we talk about healing emotions from the body or the way that emotions come on you hear them say is like this flood of experience, right?

    [00:21:03] It's like there's so many water terms associated to the release and holding of emotion. So I, I personally believe that it's in the waters and in that we can just reprogram the waters. Just like we would say being visible supports my safety. Being visible makes me more safe. Like, I love this body. I can trust this body that shapes the water.

    [00:21:24] You know, knowing that like I came here for love, I am vibrating at all the love that I can. This is an open heart and that shifts the way that my water. It was programmed in my body.

    [00:21:36] Luke: I appreciate that you started to allude to something and I just want everybody to pause to think of this for a moment of, you know, any moment you've had in your life where you could look around and logically, you know you're safe, you can see everything around you is okay.

    [00:21:50] There's no physical threat to you. Logically, you can look around and you know you should feel safe, and yet you don't. Because that, right, there's something that is still running through you at that particular moment for whatever reason, because of whatever your body and your nervous system have picked up on.

    [00:22:12] That triggers an association to something else that is unresolved, and it's still that memory, that experience, that frequency, whatever it is. It is still somewhere inside of your system. It's somewhere still inside of your body. Right? And I think we've all had those experiences of, right, the situation and the way I'm feeling about it don't match.

    [00:22:32] And that's part of the way that it's still something in there. Whether it's living in the water, living in our cells, something in there is still going on, right? And so what we're working through and what I think the, you know, some of the work that you're doing now, Holds, you know, such incredible healing potential to it is because it is about us being able to turn towards whatever that is that seems like it is still living within us, and work in a way to bring it back to safety so that it can resolve, it can complete whatever cycle it needed to complete, which it was cut off from previously, so that, that we can then move forward and we can feel more.

    [00:23:09] Grounded, more centered again in who we are. I wanna get to specifically to some of the reference you made to dissociation. I wanna get to that in a second, but before we do, I was curious if you could just talk a little bit about the rest of your healing journey. Meaning at what point, maybe, I'm assuming it was after your cancer diagnosis.

    [00:23:27] That you started to find this work and what it was that was different about this neuro somatic approach to things that that spoke to you, worked for you at a completely different level?

    [00:23:39] Jennifer: I decided that like post-recovery, I was gonna live a totally different life if I didn't do it before I was gonna start doing it.

    [00:23:44] If it were things that I did, I needed to let those things go, like everything needed to swap. It was all about like, how can I clean this system up? Because back to that, HER two gene, getting in a toxic environment like this body needs to be reshaped. I met Elizabeth Christoph at her Pilates studio and she was using functional neurology at that time for rehabilitation and sports performance.

    [00:24:10] And so I started training in Pilates. I started doing the Z Health, and I started noticing that like things were changing for me. I was changing in my body. I was showing up a little bit differently. I was starting to kind of act on these desires of like, it would be cool to have a podcast one day. It would be fun to be visible.

    [00:24:29] How does that really work? And then when the pandemic hit, Elizabeth Christophe, who's the founder of Brain-Based Wellness, developed the functional neurology for behavior change, and we healed our binge eating anxiety, chronic fatigue, depression, shutdown, bingeing. All of these are outputs of a nervous system under too much stress.

    [00:24:53] And so once again, when we can lower that stress, we can change our behaviors. When I started working with my nervous system, it was like, this is real time change and I am having really measurable experiences in my life as to how I'm showing up, how I'm feeling, how I'm quote performing. Right. Like whether that's being able to stay on tasks with all my home chores and I'm showing up for business and I'm showing up over here, and like I'm starting to set boundaries around the care of myself and I'm starting to really live a, an embodied life.

    [00:25:26] Like I'm understanding the dissociation on a really different level because dissociation on its own is a traumatized. Right. So if you're a chronic dissociation and you've been going through the world, it's hard to lay down memory in a place of dissociation. So when we're children and say, like for me, and I have early childhood sexual trauma in my ACE score, so here I am a very little girl under threat.

    [00:25:56] What is the thing I'm gonna do to leave this situation? I'm gonna dissociate. I'm going straight to flop. I am leaving this situation and so over, and this is the thing with complex trauma. It's years of something happening, right? And so through those couple of years where my little body was experiencing that, I start developing a really nice neural network of leaving my body while things are getting threatening.

    [00:26:22] Check out. It's brilliant. Like it's so brilliant that we have the capacity to do that, but when we do it chronically over time, it's very, very damaging. And then it's what makes the presence, the embodiment in ourselves, so threatening because when you have stimulus coming at you from an experience that would cause the complex trauma, back to that again, you start organizing things in a really different way.

    [00:26:50] You're not laying down the memory of what's really happening. Memory starts to get fragmented. It really fragments the ability and blocks necessary processing and integration processes in your brain. Like the development of your brain will shift the amygdala shapes differently. Your survival brain, like I describe it as like, you know, we have like that triune brain of, it's like survival brain, limbic.

    [00:27:17] Prefrontal cortex. This is a brilliant way to look at it. So like for me, my survival brain was like really lit up. It was a neon running these subconscious patterns of limiting beliefs and survival. How can I survive this? Sure, I might be playing small and self-medicating and abusing myself and self abandoning me, but I'm alive.

    [00:27:38] And your brain really likes the status quo. It loves it. It's keeping you alive. That's its only job. And so, Then the limbic system, that emotional system is just like a volume dial. It's up, it's down, it's up, it's down. And then like the prefrontal cortex is just like this very dimly lit room, right? Where my higher order systems of thinking, which are supposed to inhibit the survival brain, they're barely lit up.

    [00:28:03] And so when I work with my nervous system, I can light this area up, I can inhibit the back brain. I can be in my body and it might take some additional regulation, but I can stay with it and I can start to really be curious about the sensations that's happening around me. Like I tell people when they start to work with me like you are now an explorer.

    [00:28:25] You are the explorer of your nervous system, and it is all about curiosity. Now, it's not about shaming myself as to the way I've shown up, or I leave an experience like a wedding or something where I'm talking and really in, and then I drive through and have a frosty, right? In the days where I binged, I might have five frosties and a bag of chips and something who knows what.

    [00:28:44] Now it's like, okay, I'm gonna have one frosty. Like that's measurable change in regulation.

    [00:28:51] Luke: Yeah. When you started to initially describe kind of connecting to some of the work that you were doing with Elizabeth Christophe, and you even started to describe, you know, even the thought of a podcast, the thought of this, the thought of that, what I noticed, even just in the energy of the way that you started to show up at that moment was, I could feel the fun, I could feel the playfulness.

    [00:29:10] I could feel the connection to being more alive. That you were reintegrating at that point. And it reminds me a bit of even my own journey, not from the types of experiences that you had, but going through a period of significant burnout and recovering from that process. There was that time where all of the sudden my nervous system started to be reregulated.

    [00:29:34] It started to come back into balance and into harmony with itself. And once it did, I started to get more playful again. It was almost like, you know that that joy starts coming out, that aliveness starts coming out. You are having more fun because you're also not taking things as seriously. Like there's this levity that almost seems like it returns because you don't have to be on high alert.

    [00:29:55] You don't have to be hypervigilant at all times of what's, you know what's around the next corner. And it is, it's like this other fun part of you comes back online and you get to be from that place. Now that said, I think it's really intriguing the way that you described it. When we dissociate, it actually even becomes difficult to form new meaningful memories because of the way that we're disconnecting from the present.

    [00:30:19] If we're not in the present, if we're not, you know, embodied in the experience we're having, then we're not gonna integrate that memory and where that goes. For me, just knowing some of the research coming outta like positive psychology, when we're not present and we're not forming those meaningful experiences, we're not fulfilled.

    [00:30:36] So now if we're not fulfilled, we're gonna get more depressed, which is gonna stimulate the nervous system again, and it's gonna right. And it just locks us in this very vicious type of cycle. And so I'd love for you to speak, I guess, at this part about dissociation. So knowing a bit that most of my audience tends to be men at this point, and that seems to be, you know, a big thread of where this podcast has been going as part of this journey.

    [00:30:58] And I find that in my own experience. For any number of factors, which is a whole other podcast, men tend to, for any number of experiences that they've had, tend to dissociate from their feelings and from the emotional experience of life. Very, very often, we're supposed to be more stoic. We're supposed to keep certain things that aren't length cuz that's the way that we maintain, right?

    [00:31:22] That stoicism or that sense of calm. And yet it disconnects us from so much, especially with the background that you have. How did you get to the point that you started to feel safe coming back into the present moment and coming back into those experiences that were gonna, the emotions that we're gonna flood back in?

    [00:31:44] That's a journey that I think there's a lot of us in whatever our personal circumstances look like. It's still a journey that a lot of us are

    [00:31:52] Jennifer: trying to make When we're embodied, when we're present, we have this ability to have this like continuity of consciousness, right? Dissociation fragments. That ability, if it just cuts us off like we cannot, and what our body is doing something, we're not even present for it.

    [00:32:10] Our cognitive mind is trying to kind of like put fires out and it's really stressful and. You know, if you can't rely on your own experiences in the world, like your body is going to find safety and protective responses to keep you. Here, right? Like we need to rely on our own experiences. So what we do with functional neurology is we start lowering the threat.

    [00:32:41] We start coming into the body, and just by using little tools every day as a daily regulation practice, we call it a daily, uh, nervous system hygiene practice, because it's just like brushing your teeth. We regulate the nervous system, so. Every time I sit and do a little drill, I might do something with my vagus nerve or my visual system.

    [00:33:00] I'm creating that safety and when I take a step into a new action, a new behavior, I might need to stop and regulate around that step cuz I'm laying down a new neural network. I'm laying down a new pathway of safety. That's not something that my brain and body are used to and they're not used to me being here.

    [00:33:19] And back to like being curious about your nervous system. When you start doing this regulation, it's really about noticing like, do I lean into a little bit of flight over fight? How do I show up in Fawn? Because you can't stop these things from happening. You live in a nervous system. You live in this world.

    [00:33:37] You are gonna go into one of the f trauma responses. Dissociation is totally normal, uh, perfectionism, whatever it is that you're experiencing. And so, I think for dissociation and I think. Just to lean into the emotional part of this too, for like men and all of us, we didn't grow up in societies or maybe even in families where our emotional bodies were safe, where they were supported.

    [00:34:04] A lot of us grew up in places where our emotions were too big for our primaries to handle, and so it just gets easier to shut that down. And then on top of it, we live in a world that is giving us the wrong messages. Like you said, men are supposed to be stoic. Men are supposed to do this, men are supposed to do that.

    [00:34:23] I think that you are doing such beautiful work, and I'm thrilled, and I think it's beautiful that you are turning this into a podcast that supports men because as a woman in the world looking for partnership, looking for safety like. We need the men to be healed too. Women and people of color are not the only people affected by this patriarchal, oppressive system.

    [00:34:45] Y'all have been affected too, and we need you to feel your emotions. We want you to be here in your body so that you are kind of, I think, playing that male divine role in a life for a woman who wants play, who wants pleasure and joy and fun, and to feel safe in a container. Like that, you know, I need to know that like you're doing your work too, because we are gonna get triggered.

    [00:35:12] We are gonna wanna leave our bodies. We, that is all so normal as a protective response when a brain is trying to find safety and when we open ourselves up to partnership, open to other relationships, friendships like, Our bodies feel each other. Our brains are social organs. We are regulating to each other, and it's like scientific that you as a man would dysregulate me and hold the space over my nervous system.

    [00:35:41] So I can only do so much regulating. If my partner isn't in a safe body, it's gonna blow the container.

    [00:35:54] Luke: So, Jennifer just said this a, a moment ago that I wanted to make a quick comment on, we need you speaking to men. We need you to feel our emotions. We want you to be here in your body. Well, men, it's no surprise, we go to our heads, we go to solve. We go to fix. We like to figure things out, resolve it, and move on.

    [00:36:13] But what we tend to skip over is the feeling and processing part of this equation. Which is also loaded with intelligence for us. They can help us to live better lives, and most definitely have stronger, healthier relationships in supporting men as well as in my own direct experiences. The number of times I have heard phrases like my partner, my wife, my girlfriend, she just doesn't hear me.

    [00:36:37] I've had that conversation. I've explained that, or I've asked for forgiveness, but we keep going back to the issue. Well, It's almost always this recurring conversation. It's almost always because she could not feel you and you weren't feeling her. Then we've gotta be able to get out of our heads. We've gotta start paying attention that it is not what we say, but how we say it.

    [00:37:02] So what feeling and energy are we putting into as well as allowing to be seen and felt in how we're showing up and is underneath what we're saying? The same goes for listening. Can you truly allow yourself to feel what the woman in your life is communicating? And not just feel what you feel, but to get outta your head, to get out of your own story about what you feel is going on right now, but instead, allow your yourself to actually just feel her, feel from her view, to feel from her heart.

    [00:37:36] You see, we typically cut ourselves off from this level of feeling. Number one, because we have to get incredibly present to feel at this level. And we also tell ourselves it's because, well, as I said before, we wanna fix, we wanna solve, we wanna figure it out. But in reality, in those moments, we're escaping out of our bodies.

    [00:37:55] We're actually disconnecting and in getting into our heads so that we don't have to feel it's a protection measure. It's a coping mechanism. It's because to feel may mean to be hurt, to feel pain, to get uncomfortable in a way that can't easily be resolved or maybe doesn't even need to be resolved. But we've gotta be present in those moments to feel through that uncomfortableness.

    [00:38:20] And I share this here because as men, to be in this space and to hold space to our own feelings as well as to truly feel others and allow them to feel us, this takes great strength. It takes us healing and rewiring our own trauma, hurts and pains so that we don't need to avoid these spaces, but instead we can be in them fully.

    [00:38:51] Thank you for all of that. It's interesting because what I've also found, Which you, you just touched on, and I wanna lean into this a little more, is that when we get into those relationships, that we do start to feel safer in my experience, you can speak from a different angle. I don't know. The safer we get, the more likely that our stuff is gonna come up.

    [00:39:16] Yes, because now it f right now it feels like, oh, I think I'm safer so I can express. Yeah, I'll just take it from the men's perspective I can express, cuz this is something I went through and I don't necessarily know the healthy way to express. It just wants to start pouring out of me when you hold certain things back, when you shut down certain things.

    [00:39:37] For what I've experienced, a lot of what I shut down was certain grief, certain sadness, certain beliefs or worries that I had. And so to me, when I would shut 'em down, the only other emotion I could turn to that felt like it gave me control was anger. And so I would turn right because that's a way of feeling like I'm protecting.

    [00:39:56] It feels like I'm gonna keep myself safe if I go to more of this angry place. But I didn't know how to help express that in a healthy manner. It would come out as agitation, as boiling over as whatever it might have been at that moment. And the irony was it came out in my relationships where I felt safest.

    [00:40:15] So now it's being taken out on people who would be the last people in the universe I would ever want that to pour out onto? Have you experienced that? I

    [00:40:22] Jennifer: always say like my fight trauma response is very well worn. I have lived with deep wells of rage and anger and pain, and I those wells. Have been the threads to the greatest expansion in my life to learn how to healthily express my anger and rage.

    [00:40:42] They are sacred emotions, so is grief. As humans, we are here to experience the full spectrum of emotion. When you repress your rage and your grief and your anger, are you also repressing your joy, your connection, your vitality, the pleasure. And we gotta be here for all of it. And it's about having a nervous system where we can hold all of this and be resilient and be able to.

    [00:41:08] Understand, like, and even just be able to have the conversation with our partners, like, Hey, uh, this is bringing something up in me right now. Like, we gotta have these safe places because there is no singular nervous system, like we are all connected at a physical physiological level. We adapt together, we exist together.

    [00:41:29] There's. There is no growth in isolation, and our nervous systems are always speaking, vibing, attracting, adapting to one another all the time, and it's all shaped by our early development. No one taught me how to be angry. I was just a little girl. I was supposed to just be seen and not heard. Like, sh, it's not a big deal.

    [00:41:49] Don't let him have that power, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, no, this is real. This is. Sacred. What we do with nervous system health is like we regulate, do some tools to make me feel safe. I take a scary action like intentionally trigger my anger or rage or grief, and then I regulate again on the back end to just rewire and let my brain and body know like, Hey, it's really safe to feel these emotions to release these emotions.

    [00:42:15] Once again, these stories, they've been in the body for so long, like the, the body is holding it and now we're gonna release it, and now we're gonna feel presence. Even like you brought up something too, like the safety and the joy, it will cause the same threat in your body. That any perceived threat will be.

    [00:42:34] It's like, oh my God, now I'm safe. Now all my stuff's coming to the surface and now I gotta deal with that. And there's another person here.

    [00:42:43] Luke: Exactly. Exactly. And so a a few things for every listening one is this part of the conversation was that we wanted you to have a level of awareness of, you know, when we're moving towards that safety, there are other things that will come up because now it feels like it can be released.

    [00:42:57] Number two is beginning to think about. How you can have a safe space, a safe container, uh, a way of crafting a conversation between you and let's say a partner so you can acknowledge, Hey, I've, I actually, I feel some anger coming up right now, and I can, and being able to have enough awareness to say it may have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on between us right now.

    [00:43:20] It, this is old stuff, right? And so help me work this through. I need one, the ability to find a way of expressing it. And then number two, how do I start to regulate? And when we start to to create a space that allows us to move through these cycles, the speed at which you will be able to ultimately do this changes dramatically.

    [00:43:42] Right on. Totally different. It's a

    [00:43:45] Jennifer: portal to transformation, like honestly. And then also too, to have a partner that you know, also knows how to regulate their nervous system. It's like, I'm not gonna take your anger on, it's not about Yes, yes. Oh, what did I do? Did I behave wrong? Did I say the wrong thing?

    [00:43:59] And like, what's wrong with me? And then turning the spotlight internally, because a lot of times like that fight response that I talk about, like it's not always an external fight response, it's an internal, like that anger is coming back into me. I don't want that for my body. No,

    [00:44:16] Luke: that's interesting. Cause that's, even when I think about anger for myself, yes it may be feel like it was triggered in relation, let's say to somebody else, but the vast majority of time it was the, the inner fight that was actually going on at those moments of, you know, things that I had that was resentment within myself to myself.

    [00:44:36] Of how could you let that boundary be crossed? How didn't you see that coming? Why didn't you see this? Why didn't you see that? And it creates, again, that, that kind of wicked loop that's processing. But for us to be able to know these are patterns, you know, uh, maybe something else to step back on, these are patterns we all go through.

    [00:44:54] We're all human beings. We all have these patterns. It's part of the incredible system that we are. And the more that we do find a way of having these conversations to express this with each other, to create these ways of communicating with our partners, to go through what we need to go through, we're bringing out of, you know, the things that used to be in the shadow that used to be in the dark.

    [00:45:15] We're bringing them back into the light. We're bringing them into this light of awareness, this light of consciousness so they can be resolved and they can be resolved in a safe and a healthy way. Because we dissociate, we kick up all the other, uh, you know, coping mechanisms and everything else because of the stuff that we're trying to keep locked away.

    [00:45:33] The more that we can bring that back in, the more that we can begin to balance ourselves

    [00:45:37] Jennifer: back out again. I. What makes anger so scary for people, I think is that because we've all been hurt by the unchecked rage of another person. Like we know what anger feels like. We know what it's like to be unleashed on, to be scared of that.

    [00:45:55] And when we intentionally work with this anger, we don't have these explosive moments, right? It's like, okay, this anger's in the body and now it's getting out of the body. And there is, I mean, To scream and hit a pillow or to just like fake punch something or like break a plate or whatever is the way that you like to get that out.

    [00:46:18] Like boxing is a great way, kickboxing, any moay tie sort of stuff. It's like, how can I move my body to get this expression out? Do I need to scream or hit or punch or all of it? I broke a plate one day just out of nowhere, and I was like, oh my God, that was amazing. Yeah, I never did

    [00:46:37] Luke: that. Right? I've used different forms of, you know, maybe a, a, a yell, a scream, a primal scream, uh, some other techniques along those lines that I've learned.

    [00:46:47] And for any of these types of techniques, I've actually even gone through an anger ceremony, uh, which is setting it up in a very, very sacred space. So it could be maintained as a ritual when you go in and you have any of those experiences, if you're gonna break that plate to do so. Not out of focusing on the conflict, but focusing on the energy, the emotion that's there, so that you can literally feel the emotion come through you and into the rage.

    [00:47:14] Yell into yelling into a pillow, or break into branch, breaking the plate, whatever it's gonna be, so that you can energetically feel what you're doing. It's not about the content. It's about the energy that you're letting through at that moment in a way that is not harmful to you, that is not harmful to another, and it, it is, it's more of a sacred ritual.

    [00:47:35] The more that I did that, cause I had an unbelievable experience actually after having completed my first ever anger ceremony, is I allowed myself to go there. I allowed myself to be able to express and actually feel what was there and what it let me know was how much my anger was connected to boundaries that I was not maintaining.

    [00:47:53] Yes. Right? Yes. And so boundaries that I was letting get crossed by my own unconscious doing right, not to anybody else's fault. They didn't know they were crossing boundaries, cuz I never told 'em. Those were boundaries to begin with. And so it was something within me. Well, interestingly enough, not surprisingly, you know, universal play, less than a week later, one of those exact circumstances came up and I was able to use my anger in a very, very healthy way.

    [00:48:20] It was not rageful at somebody, but it was very much I. Being able to speak with a level of conviction, with a level of strength in my voice to say, no, this isn't okay. And they heard me in a completely different way cuz they could feel me in a completely different way. And what it's taught me, right, they, they gift that anger can be not just in using it, but in terms of what it's bringing my awareness to.

    [00:48:46] Total different understanding, right than. Anger previously, and it was, oh my God, this nervous emotion. I can't let this out. I've gotta, hold on. I gotta repress it. Uh, or it's gonna explode somewhere. Total different relationship. With this feeling of anger

    [00:48:58] Jennifer: and that suppression or repression of emotion is also dangerous and toxic to a nervous system like that is stressful.

    [00:49:07] And I think it's beautiful. Like boundaries are a way for us to really stand in our self preservation, you know? And is that rage, is that the same flame of passion just at a different volume? You know, like, how can I use the fire? Yeah.

    [00:49:28] Luke: I like the association to that, right? It's true for, you know, all the things we're, all the different emotions we're talking about, and so many different aspects of life.

    [00:49:35] There are these energies, emotions, even experiences that we can have that can be in a balanced, healthy, conscious manner, or the same exact thing can be done in an imbalanced, unconscious, very unhealthy type manner. Anger is is exactly one of those. It can be very, very, very sacred. It can be used with beautiful intention.

    [00:49:57] It could also be incredibly destructive. And so for us to be able to recognize that fire can be used in so many different ways, anything we're experiencing has a healthy expression and an unhealthy expression. And the more we draw awareness to it, we can actually start to steer that ship in the direction that we want to go.

    [00:50:15] Jennifer: And I like to look at everything as a spectrum. Yes. Right. It just all lives on the spectrum and where is, where's my dial at?

    [00:50:23] Luke: Yeah. Thanks for clarifying it that way. Maybe Jennifer, if we start to kind of bring this around full circle. I think about this in terms of somebody who may be listening right now, maybe this is new to them, maybe they've had a little bit of exposure to some of the conversations that we've had, and they know they've got some.

    [00:50:39] Work they want to do to regulate their nervous system to, to really begin this part of the, the journey for themselves. And I'm curious if you could describe like what would be some of maybe the initial steps, whether that be practices, whether it be information to go investigate, but if they're kind of sitting at that precipice saying, there's something here for me.

    [00:51:01] Where would you steer them to begin this next leg of their journey?

    [00:51:04] Jennifer: Rewire trial.com is gonna give you two free weeks on the Brain-Based Wellness membership site. We are there four times a week teaching live. We deeply believe in community and we are there to help you. Understand the nuances of your nervous system.

    [00:51:19] So I would say start exploring that work. See if this is a modality that you are like resonating with, that you are feeling that threat bucket. Calm down, that you're feeling some different ways that you're moving through the body and like see if it works for you. And then if you're ready for like a high level of.

    [00:51:37] Accountability and commitment, and you wanna clear these emotional stories and you want support on the subconscious, rewiring and like tools that would be unique for your nervous system. Then you book a consultation with me and maybe we work together or you work with one of our other facilitators, but the work that we do is incredibly transformational.

    [00:51:57] It's a six month container. A lot of people move on to do it for a year because like your nervous system is very nuanced. And I mean, you do. You become like the scientist, the explorer, and then you become the curator of your life. When you become embodied and you have the understood deeper understandings and you can connect to the ancient wisdom that lives within you, and you understand that I am the creator of this life.

    [00:52:23] I'm making this happen, these patterns. I will reshape these patterns, I will, will rewire them, and then you're gonna start to create a new experience for your life and the things that you dream of that might even feel like they're just so far away. It lives in your nervous system and the safety of your nerve system.

    [00:52:43] Anything is possible. You are not stuck where you are. That is like the beauty of neuroplasticity, right? We all have that capacity in our brains, but neuroplasticity could go the other way, like. You get better at what you do. So what do you wanna get up and do every day? Do you wanna be depressed? Pull the blinds, eat some chips, and get on the couch?

    [00:53:03] Your brain will support you getting better at that. Do you want to? Whatever. Then your brain will support your endeavor in that, like your brain. And I really believe our spirits and our bodies want to support. The greater happy life where we do have the experience of the anger and the joy, maybe all in one day in the same experience.

    [00:53:25] Like, man, that pisses me off and damn, I'm so happy about it. Like, you know, it's about the fullness of life and I think everything, all of that lives in your nervous system, and I think we should all know how to operate our nervous systems. So rewire trial.com is where I would start and then see if you like it and then come see me.

    [00:53:45] Luke: I love it. I guess that piece then that I want to interject or, or wrap up with, because you used the reference to the nervous system basically being our operating system, and what we're learning through this process is that this is not just simply a rewiring of trauma, meaning that yes, you can use this for extraordinary healing.

    [00:54:05] You can move past and reintegrate that trauma in a manner that becomes healthy for you to be able to function. You can do all of that work and. That operating system, you're learning how it is that we wire to anything we get conditioned by this life. Part of that's by our own doing and our own unconscious part of it is what we experience and go through in this life.

    [00:54:24] But you're learning how we wire and the more that you learn those processes, it's not only for the sake of healing, but it's also for the sake of creating, as you just said, Jennifer, where. We can start to say, how do we wire ourselves for joy? How do we wire ourselves for peace? We can actually do these things.

    [00:54:43] We can create it. It's the same operating system, right? And that's the healthy functioning. That's what we're here for. It's part of what we're meant to be able to do, but we need the knowledge, right? We need the experience with it. And I think that's the final piece that I wanted to wrap up and just see if there's anything further you wanted to add to this, that because of the way that I understand the way you work, and even through my own experience, This is not talking it out.

    [00:55:06] This is a very embodied, somatic type of way of doing things, and I know for me, and I'm gonna speak very much as a guy at the moment. I needed to get outta my head. You know, if you're in your head, you're dead. Right? Isn't that Tony Robbins? Right? And I knew all about that. And so I needed to be able to do something that was gonna help me reintegrate in a very, very different way.

    [00:55:29] Cause logic wasn't gonna do it, rationalizing was not gonna do it. This type of work, this type of somatic work and nervous system work, allowed me to do that, to drop in in a completely different place. And then all of a sudden it was one day you wake up and it's like, wow. I actually am seeing things different.

    [00:55:46] I am perceiving things different. I'm relating to things different, and I didn't have to think my way there. You had to

    [00:55:51] Jennifer: feel your way there and like you created a new experience for your body, a new internal landscape for your body to vibe at for it to experience more truths in a way, you know? And like boundaries.

    [00:56:04] Boundaries can be so hard to set. You talked about them earlier and it's like, man, boundaries are scary. Because we don't wanna be shut off from the tribe. We don't want to be in trouble, we don't wanna be isolated. But at the same time, like how can we be in our sovereignty with our full gifts and our full life without being here and a little bit protective of the way that we, you know, kind of want things to look And you know, sometimes we just value the approval of others over the capitalist self and we get to reconnect to that.

    [00:56:39] And put ourselves first and fill our cups so that we can serve the greater good. It is beautiful. I mean, it's just beautiful. There's, it's, I don't even know what to say it. I'm, I feel like I'm a little in the bliss of embodiment right

    [00:56:54] Luke: now. You highlight into that we get to use this to reconnect to that deeper part of who it is that we really are, and that's what we then get to bring out into this world.

    [00:57:04] We get to create from that.

    [00:57:06] Jennifer: You just reminded me of something too that I wanted to say. I feel like when people begin these journeys, there can often be these thoughts of like, there's something wrong with me. I'm the bad one. Like that's what complex drama teaches us. Like it's me, I'm the one who needs to change, and that's not true.

    [00:57:21] Whoever's listening like that is not true. You are not broken. You are buried under complex trauma. You are buried under stories and emotions that just do not serve you anymore. And I think a lot of times on this journey, it is about the uncloaking of the soul. It is about the you that is you, to come forward and be fully self-expressed, to feel safe in your body to be.

    [00:57:47] To be whatever it is that you wanna experience, but you're just buried and it doesn't not have to stay like that.

    [00:57:53] Luke: Most definitely does not. Jennifer, I wanna thank you for being here. I wanna thank you for going on this walk with us. I so greatly appreciate it and I am just honestly inspired and awed by the journey that you have had and what you have been able to uncloak, what you have been able to recreate for yourself in this life.

    [00:58:11] It is a beautiful inspiration, beautiful example for so many of us.

    [00:58:15] Jennifer: Thank you so much. It's a deep honor to be here and I'm very grateful for the time and for your energy and for the safe space that you've created for me to be able to show up. And share myself. Thank you. Thank you, Jennifer.

    [00:58:30] Luke: Now, if you want to go further with Jennifer Wallace, be sure to check out the Trauma Rewired podcast, which you can find probably wherever it is that you're listening to on this walk.

    [00:58:39] Right now, she and her co-host continually dive deep into all sorts of practical wisdom for working with your nervous system reregulating, and learning how to work with your experiences in a much more empowered way. And at the top of the show, I told you I had something for you that if you wanted to create deeper alignment with what matters most in your life and within you, then you can now download the alignment process of workbook.

    [00:59:03] This used to be only exclusively available to my private clients, but now you can download this. This process will walk you by step to surface what really matters, help you clarify what it needs to look like in your life. And get you on your way to implementing what you discover in your life right away so that you can feel greater satisfaction and alignment within just the next month.

    [00:59:26] So just go to on this walk.com/alignment. It's on this walk.com/alignment. It's all yours for being a listener here. Lastly, once again, I want to thank my team at Podify who helped me produce on this walk week in and week out.

Feliz Borja