006 - Returning To The Center
We spend so much of our lives on the periphery. What matters most is at the center—and yet we get pulled away, time and time again.
This was a perpetual state for me for too long. I would get lost in life’s demands and obligations. I thought I was chasing the most important thing – success, achievement, image – but that was just my conditioning.
So how do we come back? How do we not only wake up to the pursuits that pull us away, but also go deeper into what needs these pursuits pretend to fulfill?
For that to occur, we need both space and an understanding of the many patterns at work.
I was fortunate to quite literally find myself journeying next to a fellow explorer, Andrea Bendewald. She exudes both an aliveness and also a deeper centeredness you can sense in her gaze. And it’s no wonder, based on the past couple decades of her journey and the practice at the core of her work.
And as I pictured stepping into this conversation with Drea, I could see our other sister, Alexis Pokorny Kahlow, who one could say has spent time traveling in similar circles!
In This Episode
(01:25) How my ‘hero’s journey’ started six years ago
(04:54) How do we return back to the center?
(09:16) How Andrea realized she was off center, listening to “the voice”
(13:07) How chasing corporate success led Alexis from her path
(16:07) Finding answers in the circle
(23:24) Alexis’ pivot to her spiritual journey
(27:31) Andrea’s processes, and working with women from all walks of life
(34:00) Spiritual evolution through circling
(41:30) Finding your authentic voice in the circle
(47:36) How Alexis uses the seasons to help clients visualize life
(53:11) The most prevalent seasons in Alexis’ and Andrea’s lives
(1:00:15) What does it mean to care for ourselves, and how can that help us find center?
Notable Quotes
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“I get something out of every circle I lead or sit in and very often something comes through me that I had no idea needed or wanted to be spoken. So that can be the gift that comes from [it] – the deep listening, if we're holding space and really listening and letting each person's story enter us and change us. And because we're kind of practicing a more conscious way of being together, I can feel it where I can feel it go, ‘Oh, that was designed for me. That's what I came here to receive is that one nugget of truth. That is somebody else's truth. But now is also my truth.”
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“I'm a big believer in meeting people where they are. And, you know, the women that I'm working with, we start with some grounding and attending and attuning practices, like just landing in our bodies. What do you feel? Where do you feel in your body? What's the sensation presenting it as? And then we'll share just simply on that, because the muscle that I'm hoping to help them develop is that pause, becoming more sensitive to actually what they're feeling, and then being able to verbally communicate that, to be able to hear themselves.”
Our Guests
Known originally as an actress, Andrea Bendewald is also a mindfulness coach, circle facilitator and founder of The Art of Circling, a spiritual practice based on ancient ritual that uses group mindfulness to empower individuals, strengthen communities and enhance productivity. Through sharing stories, deep listening and interconnected meditation, The Art of Circling heals and transforms lives.
Alexis Pokorny Kahlow is a performance-based mindfulness expert, author and CEO of Open Deltas. Before launching her own company, Alexis spent over a decade as a top-performing corporate sales leader at Cisco, where she first introduced mindfulness to her own team. She is the author of a book called “Out of the Grind and Into the Flow” and currently works with Fortune 500 companies to provide corporate mindfulness training.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
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Luke (00:00:01):
Welcome to On This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart centered guests each week, as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically. Uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Welcome, welcome, welcome. And thank you for joining me on this walk. I'm your host, Luke Iorio. Today, I wanted to tease something out a little bit. It's about this journey and this cycle of change and how it parallels also our ability to listen to that still small voice within. You see, it's this journey, as well as this voice, that supports us in returning to our center. For those of you that have been following along, you already know that I started to feel burnt out just a couple, a few years ago, maybe about six or seven years ago now. And I started to realize that as I was burning out, I had gotten crosswise with my true nature. I wasn't aligned with my natural talents, with my sense of meaning and purpose, with the ways that I really wanted to experience this life. I wasn't conscious to many of those things, but my nature, my soul was, it absolutely knew what was going on.
And it had been leaving me these signs. It had been whispering and giving me messages all along the way, that I either didn't hear or more likely I refused to hear. So finally, it created some scenarios that I just couldn't not here and I needed to see what was right in front of me and start paying attention. It's, you know, if you follow along or, or pay any attention to the heroes or heroine's journey, what you find is that this is the call, and I also exhibited the refusal of that call until there's a series of moments or experiences that bring you face to face with that call that asks you to commit to this journey and just see how far it's gonna go. But of course, just making the commitment, saying yes to that, hearing that call, that's just the very, very, very, very beginning of this journey.
And then we've gotta go through that process. We've gotta go through that cycle of change and there's many different trials and tribulations that we're gonna go through as we do. And that's why it can very much help to have a series of practices, as well as a community of support around you. As you begin to watch this unfolding, and you know that I've already started to talk about some various practices on this show and I will talk about, and, and some of these practices that help us to really start to hone into that center and listen to that still small voice, can be things like meditation, contemplative reflection, or prayer. It can be journaling, it can be active imagination, and it can also be things like coaching and circling. Yes, there's some others that can help us to get in touch with this call, this inner voice and teacher, to start to understand that journey that we're being called to.
But this one practice of circling, well, keeps circling around on me, it keeps coming back, and so I wanted to begin to explore this today. Now, while there's, just to be clear while there is no, I don't believe that there is one practice that fits all, but I do believe there are certain practices that fit many, and this to me is one of those practices. And so to just be clear about what it is that I am speaking about, and, and what circling really truly is, is that I think of it this way, and I'm gonna have two other people who can add to this greatly as we, we unfold this walk today. To me, circling, it's a way of gathering in a small and intimate safe group that allows us to be heard into speech as Parker Palmer says that, I love that phrase, to be heard into speech.
And what that means is that when you have people that are listening so fully, so deeply and intently with such presence and acceptance, then you find yourself drawn into expressing what needs saying for you. For you to be able to share, or for you to be able to feel and to be witnessed in those moments. It allows you to be truly seen. You learn to begin to tap into and be guided by that inner teacher and voice so that you can allow the words to be found that match your inner experience. And for me, it's by putting voice to this inner experience, it's in letting that inner teacher be seen and heard when this unfolds, you find that your inner world and your outer world start to align, they start to integrate. They start to unite and you no longer feel as separate or divided showing up in all different aspects of life in different ways.
And instead you start to accept the truths that are coming through you, that you are experiencing, and that you are speaking. This process, and more specifically, even this ability to unite with this inner voice begins to usher in a richer, more felt journey of life that seeks to align you to your deeper, essential nature. And to me, that's returning to your center, and then it's about how do we bring that center? How do we bring that essential nature back out into the world? How do we let that begin to unfold within our life? And that's when that journey of change begins. Because as I said before, this is the beginning of the process, and it's also a process that to me, doesn't really have a, have an end to it. It's a constant unfolding through the whole of our lives. And so for this walk today, I wanted it to be taken with two women who had been facilitating circles for other women for quite some time.
And I wanted to connect with both of their experiences in this process, as well as their own journeys and their insights, but also because of the feminine perspective, because this stage of change, this beginning has, you know, this beginning that we're now on has significant aspects of learning to how to hold space, how to create space, how to move into a space of more allowing and receiving. And these two women have deep experience, not only with the process, but with this sacred way of being and relating that they can share with us. And so with that, I would like to welcome to On This Walk, Andrea Bendewald and Alexis Pokorny Kahlow. As way of introduction, let me first speak about Drea, and for those that might have even just seen my, my little bit of my posting on this was that we quite literally met around the fire. We met, we met on a journey and found ourselves on that journey quite literally sitting next to each other on the fire, around the fire and in this beautiful, sacred circle.
And Dre has been doing this circling process for a long time now, right? It's going on 20 plus years. And the way that she's gotten there, I mean, you can see her official bio, but she's done extraordinary things as an actor and as a performer, as a professor within the arts, she found this process though, along the way that allowed people, allowed women, allowed other professionals to begin to share and to understand their experiences and profound ways. And as you go through that, and you go through that in a group, you begin to recognize you're not alone. You begin to recognize and learn from each other's journeys. And this is the work and the art of circling that Dre has been following for all these years.
And then for the rest of you who have been following, you may also recognize Alexis Pokorny Kahlow, because she joined us on the very, very first walk, actually, Episode 1. And she's the founder of OpenDeltas. For those that may recall, one of the really unique things to me in Alexis' background was that she comes from that high performance culture as a sales leader and as a performance driver and, you know, just loving every minute of the type A side of, of the world, and also found different ways of exploring more of her innate nature to bring that out, which brought her to a completely different state of balance, which is the way in which she is now able to work with others in the world and bringing them back to their center. And so Alexis and Dre, thank you so much for being here on this walk.
Alexis (00:08:18):
Thanks for having us.
Andrea (00:08:19):
I feel so seen. I feel so, wow, I mean, let this circle begin. I feel seen, I feel witnessed, I feel heard. What a great platform this is already for us to just share our inner world and what it is we love about this walk that we're all doing. So thank you, thanks for having me.
Luke (00:08:40):
Absolutely. Dre, actually, I wanted to, to maybe kick off a little bit with you. Originally, I, I think where I wanted to start was how you began distinguishing, understanding when that small voice, you know, that still small voice started speaking to you and how you separated it from the mind shatter. But I guess maybe actually, if I take a half step back, I had to realize that I was off center to realize I wanted to move back towards center. And so I'm kind of curious what you recognized for yourself that how did you know that you were off center and how did then that voice start appearing to you in ways that, that brought you back?
Andrea (00:09:16):
So I remember a very specific moment where I was an actor, I still am an actor, but I was, that was my main gig. And I was a working actor and I was kind of climbing up the ranks and, you know, on TV shows, but wasn't enough. I had to be on the next TV show and the next one and the next one. And I was in a lot of pain and suffering and I was confused and I was unhappy and I was depressed. I mean, you fill in the blank. I was it, I was chain smoking, drinking coffee, going after this thing, getting it. And at the same time, I was sitting in circles and leading circles and blissed out and piercing the veil, and as if we were doing drugs, but we weren't, but they were two separate worlds because I came from a background.
I grew up in New York City and I was a trained actress. And the story was, if you wanted to be a successful actress, you had to give it your all and that could be the only thing that you ever wanted, was the story. And so I was living that story and it was kind of working, cos I was working, but I was dying. And I had, thankfully, cos I was by nature, a seeker and I was living in LA and we had places like the Bodhi Tree and people were, you know, we were like reading and sharing and, and that's really, like the spiritual world, was my calling. But storytelling through acting was also a gift that I had, but it was teacher seeker, number 500, that said to me, you don't have to be one or the other, you can be both. And it gave me permission to kind of pivot more of my energy towards circling. So I had always been circling, but it was like a hobby, a sidebar. It wasn't a life. It wasn't, I couldn't make a living doing this, which is where my aggressive mindset of like, I have to make money, I have to achieve, I have to do more. The opposite of being present.
Luke (00:11:32):
I think the, that pursuit of more and that definition of success that you had, I mean, I, I so loudly hear that within my own journey of what I perceived success to be and what that achievement looked like. I loved the story that I had told myself about how being an entrepreneur was the ticket to freedom. You become anything but free in that process because of the way you frame it. And so I chased it in a certain way that consistently made me less free in the way that I was doing it. And through a recent experience, and I'm not gonna go into the depths of it, I'm gonna talk about the vision quest I've been on in the future, but there was an element there, and there was a moment there in connecting to the depths of nature where I felt like I got lectured by nature, telling us how humans are always in pursuit of more.
And this more, this more, this more, whether it's more responsibility or more material or more activity or more busyness, because it's as if we're trying to fill some type of perceived emptiness, this within us. And it's only when we recognize that it's a perception of emptiness, that when we begin to reconnect and feel it at that level, that all of a sudden, so much of that begins to fade away and this reintegration begins to occur in this really powerful way.
Alexis, if you have just something you wanna jump in on by all means, do so, but I'm certainly interested in for you, when you, cos you, you shared a little bit of your story before with us, but noticed that divided life that you were feeling of, right? The weekends versus the weekdays were very, very different. And so just anywhere you wanna jump in with, with kind of your own story of, of entering into the conversation here.
Alexis (00:13:07):
Yeah. And Dre, I'll give you kind of the background. I was living in New York City, running sales and engineering business for Cisco, the I.T. company for Wall Street. So it was like, I was this badass like masculine woman, you know, who was the, yeah, like calling the shots, getting the things done. You know, even though I worked so hard to get to the title and place I was, and I felt this like, oh wow, I'm so lucky to be a woman. One of two in the company who have this role and like I have to do it cause I have to pave the way for the next women, even though I was absolutely miserable on the inside. And so when I was living in Manhattan, I had a house in Woodstock and on the weekends I would take the am track back and forth.
And one of my teachers, cause on the weekends I was doing some really funky stuff, like I had an algonquin grandmother that I worked with, Grandmother Nancy. And that was where I think I first learned of like a formal circle. And I remember sitting there and she had this elk bone that was going around and, and there were women of all different backgrounds, ethnicities, ages, everything. And we were just sharing what was from our heart. And you know, some of these circles can take hours, right? Just hours, but it feels like seconds because that deep connection that, it's such an invisible energy, but it's so palpable in that room. Like you don't even wanna go to the bathroom cos you don't wanna miss someone share. And then it just like hits you in your heart and your soul.
And so that was my first formal. But when I think about it, like any time that I've been at a dinner table with my girlfriends and we're all just like holding space, not giving advice, not telling each other what to do, but just like holding whatever needs that come, to come out. So Grandmother Nancy, that was formal. And then I just read a book called Bread and Wine, Shauna Niequist. So I by accidentally joined a Christian mother's book club and I showed up and I was like, oh wow. Like I feel like I'm, I'm not like religious, I'm spiritual. I don't know if I'm gonna fit into this group, but I've been introduced to some Christian authors that are just beautiful. And in this specific book, they talk about when you're sitting at the table and you know, you're eating a good meal and you're sharing life's experiences with others, like that's being in circle. That's commuting with that, that higher energy that, that deep current that runs within us. And then my third part of this is what I've been noticing lately, I've been going through some challenges, just big decisions in life. And I notice that I avoid circle because I would rather hear advice from someone else.
And so showing up to circle is nourishing and brave, I guess is my point and, and what I've learned over the years. So, I'll open it up with, yeah have there been times when each of, either of you have been in circle and you heard yourself say something that you're like, oh, that's it like, that's actually what I need to do. And I, I, wasn't listening to myself this full time.
Andrea (00:16:07):
Well, I'll say both. I get something out of every circle I lead or sit in and if it doesn't come through me very often, something comes through me that I had no idea, needed or wanted to be spoken. So that can be the gift that comes from, I'm really into this right now, the deep listening, if we're holding space in, really listening and letting each person's story, enter us and change us if I'm, and I'm not just sitting there, listening to my ego going, oh, I'm gonna share the story about that time because then Alexis is gonna think I'm really amazing, and so will Luke. So if I'm up here disengaged in my self, no, but if I'm hanging on your, every word and allowing your share to change me, and if everybody's doing that, I loved what you said about that deep current between us. Like we're connecting our currency. So then something comes through me, that's really a gift to me that I didn't think or know, that's the magic and beauty of circling. So very often it comes through me or, and I had no idea, or very often it comes through someone else in the circle. And because we're kind of practicing a more conscious way of being together, I can feel it where I just go like chills, I just got chills right now, where I can feel it go, oh, that was designed for me. That's, that is what I came here to receive is that one nugget of truth. That is somebody else's truth, but now is also my truth.
Luke (00:17:49):
Yeah. It's, it's how often have, you know, we heard those phrases of that, which is most personal is also universal. And you know, that's what you're, you know, part of what you're alluding to is that when we can be so deeply present with others, there is this moment that every once in a while you almost lose track of who's talking, meaning like, is that me? Is that my soul talking back at me now? Is that somebody else? Because it is so on point, it's like somebody was right there in your journey, in your story, in your head. And another aspect when you're, I'll call it more informal circle, but even if you're sitting around the table and holding space for whoever's speaking is to give them enough space so that they also are connecting to both the silence that they fall into and having enough time to see what emerges next before the next words are spoken.
So giving them enough time to sit with the energy coming through and it's in, in those moments that, Alexis back to the question you had asked both of us, where I'll start in one place and I'll start describing something. And I can tell it's just a stream of consciousness from my head, like my head, just trying to vomit out, like, okay, enough, get this outta your head, right? And then you fall into silence, and then all of a sudden you start speaking from a very different place. And that's when usually something comes through that I go, oh yeah, that, that was what I needed to see in myself tonight. And we don't because we stack so many experiences on top of one another, we don't spread them out. We don't take space in between all of these experiences. Like we don't take, you know, space in between words, but it's in that space that there's so much being said, there's so much that's there.
The space in between has been following me around for more years than I can count, I've run from this space repeatedly. In the conversation we were just having, I recognized all the times in my life that I kept speaking so I wouldn't fall into silence, because in that silence I'd have to face to feel, to acknowledge whatever it was that I've been trying to stay ahead of or distract myself from. And yet it's in that in between space that we have the chance to do several things.
First, we can more consciously separate all the events and situations, so they aren't all stacked on top of each other with all the experiences and days just kind of bleeding together. In that conscious separation, we can see patterns that are supporting and not supporting us. We can look at events more like we're watching a movie rather than being the character that doesn't know they're even in a movie or that there's any other possible script to follow. We can gain perspective and space, even a little distance and determine what's the next best step for ourselves.
Second, and building on this conscious separation that we can create, we can change our momentum when we don't take space or allow this silence. It's like an object in motion remains in motion until it's interrupted. Silence, stillness, it interrupts the motion of our lives. And when taken intentionally and consciously through whether it's personal practice we've developed or circling, or with a coach, a guide, a teacher, when we take that time intentionally and consciously, we can step out of our default mode for how we are doing life and take a moment to return back to our center, to who we are and how we wish to be engaging within our lives.
The last piece that I wanted to mention is that the space in between isn't only the breaks in our conversation or what we're sharing, it's the spaces between all events, all relationships, chapters within our lives. Being in between, in between roles, in between projects, in between shifts that are going on in my life, in your life, career, relationships. This is what used to drive me crazy was that space in between. Why? Because the in between feels like the land of uncertainty of what's gonna happen next, especially if I slow down. Keeping our heads down and just keeping going that helps us to avoid the uncertainty, to avoid the unknown as well. Just as Alexis said before, she recognizes that she avoids circling when she knows there's something within her that she doesn't want to hear yet. How often do we turn to another for their perspective and advice, instead of being quiet, turning within and being with that still, small voice of our inner teacher, our inner guide, that's been trying to service, but knowing that that means facing the truth, that becomes clear in those moments of in between.
Before I, I kind of shift us a little bit, anything else that either of you would just like to add or comment on in terms of the process of circling? Just to continue to give everybody a little bit of, of further context to this practice?
Andrea (00:23:07):
Well, I'll talk for, I'll talk forever about it, but I wanna ask Alexis, what was the moment that you are, you're in Wall Street, you're one of two women, you're at, you're at the top of like, like you made it. And what was it that, that was your pivot or your, that got you to where you are now?
Alexis (00:23:24):
I've talked about it before, but it was a real, like physical experience. It was like my soul, my higher self had entered into this, this body. And it was just like no longer able to resonate with that life anymore. And it was just this full body, like, no, and I attribute that. So I would go up to Woodstock and I had this, this house with a friend and on the weekends, it would be just a bunch of us women together in that this house that was on, there was a waterfall and like a creek by it. And we would all just sit there and it felt very primal. And it was, it definitely felt like, you know, we'd been doing it for centuries. Our ancestors have, so to sit there and to just share and then to reflect, and then to notice that it was no longer this thing I was saying, but it was something that was fully embodied.
And it was like, oh my, my body, my being, my soul, all the things are actually aligned in this path. And so, yeah, it was a full body. With that being said, I had fallen asleep one night, reading this book about animal medicine and they had talked about the black bear and the black bear is intuition and healing. And I had gone to bed thinking like, do I leave my job? What do I do here? And the last thing I read was when the black bear comes to you, it's time for you to go within and to listen truly to what's, what's going on. So that next morning I'm making coffee with my girlfriends and I'm about to head out to the waterfall to go meditate and just think, and my last conversation with her was, I really think it's time to leave.
Like I feel it in my body, and she was like, well, then go out there and meditate on it. And really like, so I go out there within two seconds, I saw like, it's probably not a black bear, but it was a cub of some sort that was just sitting out there. And I've never seen a bear in Woodstock before. And it was just like this sign, like, yes, it's time, you know, nature, all the things are, are coming together. So yeah, that next morning I went in and before I could even do it, my boss just looked at me and goes, are you happy? And I was like, no, I'm not. I'm just not happy. And that's what started this whole cascade. And then was lucky enough to start my dream business. And, and it just automatically just flowed, it just went. And so I work with high performing women and on that bridge, you know, when I start my circles, we're not necessarily calling in the directions.
And so with my, my group of women that I work with, we're not necessarily doing some of these deeper practices because I'm a big believer on meeting people where they are. And, you know, the women that I'm working with, we, we start with some grounding and attending and attuning practices, like just landing in our bodies, breathing, getting that central nervous system into a calm, rested state, and then we'll do attending and attuning. What do you feel? Where do you feel it in your body? What's the sensation presenting it as? And then we'll, we'll share just simply on that, because the muscle that I'm hoping to help them develop is that pause. Is that pause become more sensitive to actually what they're feeling, what they're experiencing? And then being able to verbally communicate that or be able to hear themselves.
So I'm a big believer, yeah, on like meeting people where they are. And I just shifted there for you, Luke. I added both in there. So my experience, as well as like some of the practices I use and I'd be so curious, Dre, to learn what you do, because I'm in need of actually looking for a circle to be supported, cos I'm finding, working with individual therapists and, and such actually is, I don't think it's helping. It's because they're diagnosing things for me and telling me what's, what's going on in my life without actually living my life. And they're diagnosing from hearing one side and I'm actually finding it to be, it's adding more pain than it is this like relief. So yeah, I would love to hear about your process and how you work with women.
Andrea (00:27:31):
So what I love most about the way I offer circles is that they're accessible to everyone. So that it's a language that everybody can understand. Whether you are new to any type of spiritual practice, whether you have a very serious religious practice. So I'm very specific about using language that includes everybody. And during this virtual circle experience, I've been able to circle with women from all over. So it's fascinating, even women that has English as a second language. So I've been able to just continue to develop a way that just brings everybody together because I find that circling is such, this powerful. It's a practice of oneness of experiencing our, what we have in common, our commonality and breaking down all these ideas of separation that we carry with us intentionally or unintentionally. I start my circles the same way with a mindfulness practice. So I call it a prayer or a meditation.
And because women are finding me, I give myself permission to lead circles, however I want. So I use the language that I'm most comfortable with and that I find everybody else has become comfortable with as well, but a check in and also learning, it's great for my practice, but also teaching mindfulness practices and meditation and providing it for other women. I love what you said about just being able to calm our nervous systems together. I do a lot of drumming in the beginning, so I just use sound as just a way to connect us through time and space. And I keep it very, well some people would say, I wouldn't keep it general, I do, sometimes it goes way out there, but I'm also allowing myself to be open to what wants to come through. And then I offer some very gentle prompts, share a story about, and lately I've been doing themes.
So this month, the theme is honored by mother and we're exploring all different stories in relationship to the mother, either the verb or the noun, or the great mother that we all share, the ancestor we all share. And because women have a lot of energy around this subject and a lot of unhealed stories around this subject. So we're unpacking that this month and I lead one group while I lead two groups and we do three circles in a row. So three Wednesdays in a row, three Fridays in a row. So we really build up some great intimacy and, and the story just keeps unfolding. So I have this intention like, oh, I'm gonna offer a circle about the mother. And then the circle takes flight and the circle becomes what it needs to become, what it's meant to become. And I just have all these practices that just kind of keep us like moving along.
But I hold it very loosely, which is the other thing I love about circling. And this is a story that I love to share. I used to lead circles in my kids' school and I was leading a circle, we called it council in an elementary school. And I think the prompt was, if you were the weather, what would you be? And we go around, I'm stormy and I'm a rainbow and I'm a, you know, sun beam, beautiful shares. And by the end of it, circle of 24 kids, seven year olds, right? Are you with me? Are you with me? And by the end of it, we were talk, what was coming through the circle was shares about gun violence. And one, one child shared something that mentioned the word gun, and that was the ripple effect. And that's all it took. And the teacher looked at me like what is happening?
And I said, what's, what needs to happen? And so I, we leaned into it and we did another round and I've chose on the left arm, and we did another round of sharing. And what was going on was there was a lot of gun violence clearly in and around this school and this community. And we didn't intend for it. We didn't go, you know what we should talk about with seven year olds, it's gun violence. We started with the weather and, but we allowed it, we allowed the circle to happen. And so that's one of the elements I always like to honor about circling. And I always like to share, and when I'm coaching facilitators is that we have our lofty ideas, but that in how we create the container, that we co-create together to create that sacred space together. And then we allow the circle to happen.
Luke (00:32:23):
Couple things that I just wanna wanna draw out and then actually ask a, a follow up based on something you, you brought up. One is, I did wanna call that one more time, just that importance of slowing the nervous system because when our nervous systems are, are so overstimulated right now, and that's part of why our attention's everywhere, it's what creates all of this extra mind chatter that we have going on. And it's the pursuit of the next dopamine hit the technology and, and all of the media and everything else is constantly searching for. And the challenges is that when we rev up to that degree, the only voice you can hear is the voice that is speaking out of your stress response and out of that fight, flight and freeze type of mode. And so that deeper voice can't be heard in that environment.
It's being drowned out by all the noise. But when we do down regulate, when we drop in, what both of you described is that the depths of who we are, whether you call that our energy, our consciousness, our spirit, our soul, whatever your word for it, call it the force, okay? Whatever that depth is, it wants to speak and it wants to be heard. And I think Dre, what you just described with these seven year olds, of there was something there that needed to come out for them because it was something that was within the depths that they were absorbing. But by giving them that opportunity, it begins to work itself out of their energy, out of their system. What, what was not meant to be stuck inside of their nervous system any longer. And so it's just kind of this beautiful space that allows the unfolding.
It doesn't try to force it. It holds the loose agenda very gently in that process. What you brought up is what, something I wanted to ask you both about is, Dre, you described it in terms of, you may do a series of three circles in a row in a month on a given theme. And my guess is that over that month, you're starting to see a deepening or an evolution that's beginning to occur from one to the next, to the next, for certainly for those that are able to, to take it in succession. And I guess that's a little bit of what I wanted to ask you guys about is what you see as people evolve with a practice, evolve into a practice like this, how they begin to merge those worlds, right? So what's evolving, what's starting to come out of them, which then can lead to that reintegration of really who they are at their depths with the way they're showing up in life.
Alexis (00:34:52):
In my space, I've seen almost every woman in my circle change their jobs. If that's what you're meaning like cause effect. And you know, their people who have been in their roles, you know, at companies for five plus years. And they probably knew after day five, that it wasn't a good fit, but you know, we get stuck in that, hey, this is safe, this is good, we'll just stay here. And so it's been really interesting for us to celebrate everybody's, you know, moves, transitions, and then going through with them in that process of, of how they're interviewing, right? The fact that when they're interviewing for these jobs, they're actually going, okay, this one pays more, but I actually like the people over here better, and I feel safer with those people, and making healthier decisions for themselves has been probably one of the most eye-opening things to watch people transition through.
And it is interesting. I do a lot of, I do mindfulness training for corporations, as well as the circles. And I was developing one and doing some workshops right now on resilience in the workplace. And so when we look at like our window of tolerance, from a physiological perspective, mental, emotional, everything, we have this like window of tolerance that we can, we can cope with adversity within. And when you look at the science, having social support is one of the number one ways you can increase your resilience. And I think for not only women, but men as well, we live in such an individualistic society, right? Our culture honors, like the person who is number one, the person who is the richest or what have you. I think that we've forgotten that innate primal survival skill you, the part of our brain that makes us wanna bond and connect with others.
And I feel like circle is also that amazing practice of one learning how to, how to be in vulnerability and be completely raw and open with others and developing the, that deep listening, like you said, the deep connection. And then those type of experiences, I think, ripple out into our lives. And it helps us develop that skill. And that recognition, that social support is probably the most critical, like out of money, out of a house, like all the things like if you've got that family of people that have your back, I think that's, that's a beautiful part of circle. And then second with just circling and women in particular, I find that it develops that muscle of learning how to receive, right? Learning how to be vulnerable and learning how to like receive that holding of space for others. So that's been two beautiful, you know, one I've seen people become, my clients become much more resilient and making healthier decisions and moves. And two, I watch them really blossom into this more like feminine essence of receiving. And I'm, I'm sure that's the case for men as well. I, I don't hold circle for men, but I expect that that's probably the scene.
Andrea (00:37:44):
I'll share what I've witnessed, all of what you just said, yes. And what I witnessed and I love these moments, is when I witness a woman coming into her own voice where, and you will see, and you will hear her voice change throughout the circle. And some women, it takes a couple circles and some women, it takes a couple years, but they are in the practice of owning or connecting to a, that guide, that voice that is the loving, the kind, the intuitive, the divine voice, rather than the other voice, which is the fearful shameful, you know, I was taught to be a certain way, and so I have to act a certain way voice. So you'll see a lot of politeness in the first circles. You will also see a lot of apologizing where women apologized for crying, apologized for tears. I now bring, I made it a practice to always bring tears and set it in the center of the circle to welcome and signal that the authentic self is what we are here to explore and embody.
And that tears are welcome, that they're healthy, that they're part of our emotional truth. So circles provide a place for women to experience themselves truthfully, they're emotional truth. So I would hear all the time in circles, all the time., I'm not kidding, 10 out of 10 circles, I'm not kidding, I would hear this. I'm sorry, I'm crying, I don't know why I'm crying. I'm sorry, I'm crying, right? I was one of them. I was one of them. I was the closed off survival child growing up in New York, some trauma. So I did not cry because it was too scary and I didn't want people to eat me alive, think I was weak and I'd be kicked out of the tribe, right? So I had to be like, I'm perfectly together and wonderful, so you'll accept me, right? I don't need anything. I don't want anything.
I just wanna be a part of everything, but I don't need or want anything. Just let me be with you, right? That's what I thought my entry into the collective was, self-sufficient to a T and then I sat in my first circle. I cried my first circle. I passed the talking piece. The world didn't fall apart that I had an emotional experience. So now I like to say to women in the circle, really? Who are we apologizing to? So if I say, I'm sorry, I'm crying. Am I really do I really think that you two can't handle me crying? No, I can't handle me crying. That's what I'm more afraid of is, is my experience. So I love to see women find that voice and you can hear the shift and you can hear there's no more apologies. And you can hear the pause, Luke, you can hear them being okay with their own silence and their own presence.
And then in turn with their own joy. So you hear women that are like apologizing like, I call them like, microaggressions, we do to ourselves. So like, well, I guess I'm just lucky that, or, you know, I'm blessed because it's like, no, there's other things going on here too. You're a part of this. You're a part of this incredible life that you're creating. So I also get to see women connect to, to self love, to connect, to like, oh, I really do, I like what I'm doing, I like who I am. You get to watch that unfold and you hear it in their voice. And I heard it in my voice. So I spoke, first circle I sat in, I remember a voice coming through me and I was like, what is that voice? Where'd that come from? That's not, I had this other voice.
You know, I had this voice that was like smart and sassy and had a mask on and like this fake voice. But in the circle, I heard this other voice. And I was like, I wanna get to know that voice. Where did that come from? And who is that? And it's the voice you're hearing now. It's the voice that I'm not editing myself, I'm not judging myself, I'm in the present moment with you two. I'm enjoying whatever's coming through this conversation. And so when you get to witness that in a group of women and we're all witnessing it together, it's like, it's why I, I can't stop doing it. And why I think everybody should be doing it all the time.
But I will say one other thing about something that you said about the difference you see in women, and you started us off with this, Luke is that, I see women explore this authentic voice in circles. And then they start bringing it out into the world and they report back. They go, my partnership is completely shifted. My partner hasn't, I have, the partnership has shifted. I asked for a raise at work. My boss wasn't thrown by the fact that I asked for a raise. He was like, great, right? And maybe they came into the circle with the problems that they were having at work. And how do we expect women, especially, to speak up at work, in life, in relationships, whatever, if they're not used to the sound, the power of their own voice? So that's the practice for me. That's why this is a spiritual mindfulness practice that is so, so beneficial.
Luke (00:43:08):
Completely. When we learn through a practice like this, to be able to connect to that voice, and then to be able to speak that out into reality, to speak it into the circle, as you said, Dre, it then, at some point translates to us being in a situation outside the circle where we can hear that voice inside, we can feel it building and all of a sudden it's like, I'm gonna trust it this time and I'm gonna follow and I'm gonna share it. And you know, I, I maybe it's, maybe it's because of your acting background, what analogy or, or what comes up to me is part of how I've distinguished that voice, is that I can feel it coming from the depths of my diaphragm, right? So that when, when you're a singer or a performer, you've gotta learn how to get down into your breath and down into your belly to, to bring that tone, right? And to bring that voice out, it almost feels that way. And at least for me, I experience that because it's a voice that is grounded to something beyond me, is the way I would describe it. And so it's coming from a very, very different place, which you also described. And, and for both of you, and I guess I want to comment on is, let me give a, a shout out for some of the guys listening. I'm doing this show with a couple of guys as well. Cause there is a very, very, very parallel conversation to be having here where there's a lot more similarities than there are differences, including the apology, apologizing for crying. But guys, I won't throw you under the bus, yet.
Andrea (00:44:39):
Luke, but Luke, can I just throw in, just throw in there on, on the crying note. I explore with us women, I say, if we are not crying, who's crying and who, who's teaching the, the children, or who's making it okay for the children, the young boys, the, the grown men to cry, like we all, so I love this parallel circles happening that, that we're all exploring that this is an epidemic of emotional stuckness.
Luke (00:45:07):
We've developed such this wall, this fear that originally was around that we don't wanna feel any form of discomfort and that's rampant throughout societies. We'll do anything to be comfortable. But what hides behind that is it's this fear of not just pain, but it's this fear of vulnerability. And that idea that if we are vulnerable, somehow we are weakened. And, you know, as, as Dre used before the, you know, women, you've said it for your own experience, I don't wanna do that. I wanna appear strong. I wanna have my stuff together. I wanna appear this way. And of course, what we, now, we know now and can say is that was a faux strength, right? It wasn't real strength. It's when we get into that vulnerability. And I guess I've described this for clients for years is to me, vulnerability is the ultimate in vulnerability because when you, when you own that part of yourself and you're willing to say, I am so comfortable to be able to put this out there, no matter how scary it is, you know how much this is gonna bring up for me right now, I'm gonna own it.
I'm gonna own that part of me. Well, when you own a part of you, it comes back to the center. It comes back to wholeness again, and you reintegrate that energy into the whole of who you are, and it adds to your strength. It adds to that personal power that we all can tap into. Something else, just Alexis, and I actually, I wanna, I, I do wanna pivot this just a little bit to squeeze this in, but just something else that Alexis, you brought up that I didn't wanna lose in this, was in people learning to express this way. They move, like some of the decisions that they need to make and maybe staying with, with that job was one of the ones you referenced of, of working with people that they like, as opposed to pursuing the next thing, you're moving through this expression, and through listening to this voice, you're moving what has been unseen into the scene. What was unconscious into the conscious, you can now do something with that. You can allow that to transform you once you can see it and be with that. The piece I wanted to pivot to just because I, I don't wanna lose this was that we also go through cycles, meaning we go through seasons as we go through change. And the reason why I wanted to bring this up is that I don't want anybody walking away with, you know, this perception of, oh, I circled for a little while everything got well, and it's this beautiful straight line off of the, you know, the sunset, right? It's a lot more like a wheel, a cycle, a circle than it is ever going to be line in any type of straight direction. That's for sure. So I was just wondering Alexis, I know you talked to your clients and you used that, that metaphor of the seasons to help them understand, you know, where are you in life right now? And so if you, you could just give me, give us the two minute, three minute synopsis of that perspective. I know you could give us probably an hour on it, at least, and then some.
Alexis (00:47:36):
The way I work my circles, because I find that we're in this, the society of like everything grows, everything lives, everything like blossoms all the time. And I just don't, that's not true. And that you're gonna struggle in life if you have that belief. And so I use the medicine wheel as kind of this guiding force to illustrate what's going on. What's the season of our life. And so every month I have a teaching that relates back to what's going on that in that month in nature. And that allows us to kind of go, okay, during these, during the fall, we're focusing more on what things we're releasing, how we're slowing down our lives and simplifying life in the winter. We're starting to honor repose and actually not doing anything at all, not death, not the, the art of death, but just actually nothingness, the void.
And then in spring we talk about, okay, what, how about all these ideas that are coming? And then in May, May for us is the big month of like rooting down. So now you've, in April and in March with the spring energy, you've got tons of inspiration and ideas. Now let's see where we put our energy and what we root into and focus on, you know, throughout that growing season. So I like to use the analogy and just watching what's happening in nature as this touchstone, for us to realize that life is always changing. And if it wasn't always changing and evolving and there isn't this cycle, we're gonna struggle really hard and, and white knuckle it a lot. And so, you know, one of the practices we use in the circle is to find a tree outside of our home and just to like observe it all year long. You know, and notice like what's going on inside me as well.
Luke (00:49:22):
Take a moment to explore this seasonality within life for yourself to sit with that question. What's going on inside me as well? I used to charge hard through all the seasons. It was the belief of perpetual growth and keep going, going, going. I didn't have time for fall or for winter. It was always to plant and grow, plant and grow, maybe a little harvest time, but really so quickly because I wanted to get going and growing again. I was charging through the natural cycles and it was exhausting. I was out of rhythm, not just with my life, but with life itself. We forget, nature isn't just something around us. We are nature too. When you sit with what's going on inside of me, do you feel that for whatever is most pressing in your life right now, whether it's your career, family, relationships, health, maybe your spiritual journey, whatever it is.
Do you feel that this most pressing area of life, is it in the spring time? Is it time for seeds to be planted and some that are even beginning to break ground, do you see them? Is it a time to nurture those seeds, a time to let them gestate and get stronger? Is it time to be patient and caring with this early stage? Are you caring for your fields and what is to come, or do you feel that maybe it's more summertime in this area, that it's time to play, enjoy the fruits of your labor while things are in full bloom? This is a stage of growth and often the joy that comes from seeing the growth take hold and spread. Do you feel it's more autumn time where it's time for harvest, meaning to care for what has come to fruition to reap the benefits of all that's been grown and at the same time, know that this chapter, this growth season is coming to an end? Is it time to begin to wind down, to prepare for winter, to prepare for repose and rest, and also know that how you conclude this autumn season provides the compost for your spring. Will your next planting season grow on fertile soil, or will it be depleted from the end of the season? Or do you recognize that this most pressing area of your life at this time is in winter? Is it time to rest to go into repose, to allow yourself those moments of silence and stillness to be in between, to allow that which is needed to go into death to do so, to be let go. So that space is created for the new possibilities that will come in spring time when you can sit and be honest with yourself, with what's really going on inside of you.
And you can put it in context with what might be the season or the chapter that you are moving through. It can allow you to take a deeper breath to remember where you are in the process within the natural cycle of life, and can let you know what you may need to remain grounded and supported for where you are. It can let you know which resources of your own you wish to call on, the more I've tapped into this natural flow of life. Those ebbs and flows of the cycles that come and go. The more at ease I have been and have become, I no longer try to fight or resist the natural cycles. Instead, I learned to work with them for the gift that they are, and that has brought a whole new sense of peace back to my center, as I hope it does to yours.
The question I, I just wanted to be able to ask both of you is what's the most prevalent season in your life right now?
Andrea (00:53:11):
I think I'm the most alive when spring is happening. I've always loved it ever since I was a child. And that's when I think that's when, like the biggest ideas come out of the incubation period from, from winter and also we're here in Los Angeles, it's kinda funny, so we have like seasons light.
So I love that how synchronicity is just always there for us. I've just recently been meditating with my sweet tree in my backyard and observing her as part of this honoring the mother, but just, just really fully aware of this tree, the way you so beautifully described that Alexis is a way to, to honor the seasons. So I don't know where in my life I am, but that's all I have to say about it. It's just like spring is my season. It is my, it's where I'm reminded that everything is cyclical, that everything comes back around that it's not stagnant, that this too shall pass, that everything has a, you know, that so much is happening in our favor when we're not even aware of it. And to me, that's what spring does. It's like, how did that happen? How did that happen? Oh my gosh. I had nothing to do with that. You know, I had nothing to do with that and look at that happen. So I think it just remind, it just, it's renewal and it's, it's genius, like spring is, is genius.
Luke (00:54:46):
Thank you for that. Alexis, what season's most prevalent for you right now?
Alexis (00:54:51):
Most prevalent right now, so like you, I think spring is kind of like my jam. I'm a May baby and I'm like triple earth signs. And like, yeah, this season is, is very much like just part of me and in, in all different facets, but as I've gotten older, I am so embracing this more feminine side of me and that like late fall winter, when it's like, this is gonna sound more like that death and that like repose and that like stillness and silence in the void, I am really loving that. And I remember we took between Christmas and New Year's and not on purpose because of COVID and, and some other like sicknesses in our house, we were, we were just like in repose for a whole week. And I can honestly say that it is probably one of my favorite memories. I will always go back to what was like one of my favorite experiences living and that week of like stillness and being in the womb, whatever it was with my family was like such a sacred experience. And it really transformed, I think the way that I value the seasons. And then I'm personally right now, I don't know what season I'm going through. I'm going through this like crazy chaos of like one day it's a tax bill that comes then there's a flat tire on my stroller. Like just travel plans that keep getting like messed up. It's this kind of like chaotic time. And it was interesting. Cos yesterday I, I hit a wall with some stuff and I was just, I was at my point of like, I can't do this. I have no resilience. And what I realized was, you know, this is my storm. This is how trees actually, their roots get stronger, right? And so this is my storm to help me realize that these 3D experiences are just the, they're nuisances. You know, they might be something, but they're nuisances. And I can choose to like go back into that vertical plane of like, what's the greater picture here, and the greater picture is sitting more stilly in that, in my center. So I don't know, maybe, maybe I am in spring and just so many things are coming to life and, you know, falling away, but it's been a real opportunity for growth for sure over this past month.
Luke (00:57:13):
For me, in terms of what's prevalent, it's interesting, I think on the most prevalent side is like this very, very, very early spring kind of energy that's going on for me right now, because while there are, there's a few things that are beginning to maybe create roots and things like that, a lot of it is still exploring. Like, what do I even wanna plant? What are the seeds that I wanna put in the ground right now? And so it's this time of, there's a lot of possibility, but there's also a lot of uncertainty to it because it's, it's kind of like right in between those seasons. So that's what, I'm a part of what I'm walking with right now. And I think the one thing I reflect on just to, to hear you guys talk about the seasons, the, the way that you did is how much I have fallen in love with the dead of winter.
Not something that I would've told you a long time ago, and it's, there is something that is so beautifully stark and bleak and quiet and still about winter. It's like my favorite time of the year to be out in the woods. And you just, you, you could hear a pin drop when you're out there in the winter and believe me, I love hearing the birds in the spring. And I, you know, I love the, the way that the warmth comes back from the sun and all that. But there's just something about that, that starkness, that is a very nice juxtaposition and gives you a lot of appreciation for where we are in the spring, hopefully that that many of you are experiencing right now. The question that came up, you know, just, just popped into my energy before we wrap up Alexis, as I, as I heard you, and maybe I'll go to you first then to Dre, what's life asking of you right now?
Alexis (00:58:46):
I think it's asking me to go in and invite more of my higher self into my daily life. To live from that place, create more space for her.
Luke (00:59:03):
Beautiful. Dre, how about for you?
Andrea (00:59:06):
When you and I started talking, Luke, I said, when we, before we started the recording, I said, oh, it's happening. I'm getting, I'm getting distracted. I'm getting busy again. I can feel it, like I'm wiped out. There's no reason to be wiped out. So I'm gonna piggyback on what Alexis said, is that my higher self is saying, come back to center, Dre, come back to self care and self love and really, really taking care of yourself first. And only from there, can you offer your gifts, your guidance, because that is what I am most drawn to is guiding other women to the same practice. So that's what's being brought to me right now is, yes and. Yes and you can do all these amazing, wonderful events, seeds you've planted a long time ago that are now coming to fruition, but only if you're centered and self first and a lot of women think, oh, I'm being self centered.
And I like to reframe it and say no centered and self first. And from there, you can be a mom, be a teacher, be a coach, be a guide, be a friend. You know, a lot of women, we're just, we wanna be of service, but we've gotta kind of roll it back. Or we have to learn for the first time what it really means to take care of ourselves first. So that, that's what I'm being, that's, what's being asked of me, or I'm being called, called to pay attention to, because I, I spent so much time being wasted tired, and maybe I was being of service, but to my, my own detriment and as a mom, you know, with its full on, it's full on. I just read, sorry, I just have to share this, but I just read somewhere that the difference between men that stayed at home and women that stayed at home, worked from home during the pandemic is that the children went to the mom over 50% of the time. And they were both working people. And I thought, right, which is why women have to learn self care, have to be taught self care and what that looks like because they're being called on and pulled on in different ways.
Luke (01:01:40):
Thank you both for answering for me as well. It's, it's, it's connecting to so much of what you guys have to say. And I, I think the, that frame and that reminder of this type of work is not self-centered. It is to come back to center of self, centered and self is a really, really important one for myself. If I say it a little differently in terms of what life is asking me of me right now, and I think it's something that dropped in only about a week or so ago for me, was recognizing how all experiences that I'm having right now. And all it's unfolding is a constant invitation to return to wholeness. And so that, even those moments that feel like they're pulling me out of center, those moments that feel like they're out of alignment, you know, anything that feels like dissonance or is distracting me in some way, even those moments are helping me see a part of self that is still fragmented in some way.
And if I can be present to that, if I can be present to that energy, then I can see it again. And I can own that part of me again. And then it comes back to center. It comes back into that wholeness. And it's part of, at least what my experience has been is that the universe, God's spirit, the force, Yoda, whatever you wanna say, it's constantly doing this for us. It's constantly offering us this invitation to return to center. And it's through practices such as circling or meditation. And many of the other ones that we mentioned that there's something very unique about circling to me, cause it's this, this group mindfulness process, this, this collective process, it's extremely unique. That feels like we're circling back to center in the process.
And so Dre, Alexis, I wanna thank you both for being here today for going on this walk with us and for sharing just all of the beautiful insights of your own experiences, your own journeys, as well is about this process, listen to self and all of the many things that we got into today on this walk. And so I thank you for sharing who you are, and I thank you for sharing the energy that you have.
Andrea (01:03:49):
It was a pleasure. I loved every minute, every word, let's do it again.
Luke (01:03:53):
Both of you are always welcome back. And just for, for everyone, you know, I don't know if I can wrap up much more than, than we've done, but I guess if I were to say anything, if there was an invitation I was to make to you, it's first and foremost to slow down. And you know, it's one of the things that we were thrust into in the last couple of years with this pandemic, was a period where we needed to draw within and we needed to slow down. And now even as Dre just brought up a little while ago, we're being invited to get really busy again. And there's part of us that wants to, because we've been bottled up for a really long time, and I get that. And let's remember how it is that we started to slow down, how to take that sacred pause so that we can get present to what's speaking in the space between, what's speaking in the silence, because there's something that you have gotten connected to during this period of time or that you are present to, but maybe haven't wanted to acknowledge yet.
And it's in that moment of pause, it's in that moment of stillness or silence that you can finally start to hear that. And as soon as you begin listening to it, find yourself a circle, a support of any kind of a really, really great friend who knows how to truly listen to you and begin to express from that space and let them hold space for you because it becomes a sacred time. And the change that occurs from it is just magical.
I wanna thank everybody once again for joining us here on this walk. As I mentioned, we've got more shows coming up a couple more next week. One of which is going to be talking a little bit from the men's side of this journey with circling as well. And there's gonna be some common themes there that I think you're gonna, you're gonna hear expressed a little differently, but some definite, very common themes that are occurring here. And I look forward to having that conversation. So everybody as always, I thank you for joining us on this walk and until next time, continue to enjoy your journey. Thanks for being here.
Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation. To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to onthiswalk.com and click on Community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join. Until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.